Sorry, I'm late.
I had to stop by the wax museum again and give the finger to FDR We know al-qaeda Zawahiri is supporting the opposition in Syria are we supporting al-qaeda in Syria It's a proud day for America and by God we've kicked Vietnam syndrome once and for all thank you very very You've been took These witnesses are trying to simply deny things that just about everybody else except as a fact He came, he saw, he died.
We ain't killing they army, but we killing them We be on CNN like say our name, been saying, say it three times The meeting of the largest armies in the history of the world, then there's going to be an invasion All right, you guys introducing Kate Gould from the Friends Committee on National Legislation They just lobby against war all day every day up there on Capitol Hill, and it's cause for celebration Believe it or not.
Welcome back to the show Kate, been a while It has been a while, great to be back Scott Very happy to have you here and especially on this occasion So tell us about the product of all of your great work up there Well, it has been an extraordinary effort, extraordinary team effort that we have been privileged to be a part of That we just saw history being made on the House floor So we had, there's just this week in the House of Representatives We had Yemen War Powers legislation passed the House So 248 members of Congress voted to end armed conflict 248 members of Congress voted to end all U.S. military participation in the war And now this goes to the Senate, and we're expecting the Senate to vote in the coming weeks And this is the war in Yemen, I know, I'm sorry, there's so many wars, we gotta make sure Sorry, so many wars, yes Which genocide we're inflicting on people?
And there's actually more than one war in Yemen So this is on ending U.S. military participation in the Saudi-led war in Yemen Yes, against the Houthis, an important point there Okay, and now, so tell us about, I heard somewhere, but I'm sorry I didn't do the work But that's why you're here I heard somewhere though that there was an amendment, an interpretation, a thing that was added That didn't just make an exclusion for the war with AQAP But actually made an exclusion for sharing intelligence with the Saudis about who to bomb over there As long as it's in the name of protecting civilians, which is the BS they've been shoveling all this time Yes, so That's why they're doing this, is to protect, because hey, if we weren't helping them bomb, it would be even worse than it is So there was an exclusion passed as an amendment to this legislation Ken Buck, Congressman Ken Buck from Colorado, offered an amendment that would exclude from this legislation The ending of U.S. intelligence sharing with the Saudis, so it would allow that to continue in the war And so I should have said, when I said that this was a vote on ending U.S. military participation It's a vote on ending a part of U.S. military participation in the Saudi-led war in Yemen And I think if we had a clean vote, that would have passed as well, we would have had the votes But there was this amendment added, so we're not happy about the amendment However, I do think it's important to look at the bigger picture here But wait, is it as bad as I said though?
Well, so it allows for continued U.S. intelligence sharing with the Saudis And implicitly, it allows for the U.S. to continue with targeting assistance with the Saudis But I would zoom out for a moment, just to look at the bigger picture here The Trump administration has threatened to veto this legislation Neither the Trump administration, nor any administration since the Vietnam War Has recognized the legitimacy of the War Powers Resolution I think it continues to be extraordinarily important But the way to legislatively end this war may not likely be through this vehicle anyway So what's really, really important is to send a strong signal We saw that the Senate vote in December, when the Senate voted on very similar legislation That that had a tangible impact on the negotiations That that really told the Saudis that there's no way out but through a diplomatic solution And it was crucial leverage to get to the Stockholm Agreement A partial ceasefire for Hodeidah That has resulted in saving who knows how many lives So this is sending a very strong signal And if we can get this through the Senate, then that'll be the first time ever That Congress will have sent War Powers legislation to the President's desk since 1973 When the original War Powers Act was enacted Yeah, well, believe me, I agree with you about everything that you said there Just playing devil's advocate a little bit And it is unfortunate that that concession had to be made But then again, like you're saying, it's mostly symbolic anyway And so even if the detail is changed in there It's unlikely he's going to sign it and say, okay, you guys are right But I'm going to use this loophole to keep providing intelligence It's really an on or off switch It's either going to work or it's not And what it really comes down to is the Congress demanding an end to this Which happens to be, by the way, the worst thing that the U.S. government is doing on the face of the earth right now And that's really saying something Right, I mean, this is the largest humanitarian crisis in the world Arguably, the United States has more leverage over saving more lives in Yemen than anywhere else on the planet As you're saying, I mean, millions of people are on the brink of starving to death As a result of the Saudi-led coalition's de facto blockade And so this sends a really important signal And I think, you know, the signal is not so much in the details and the weeds of the legislation It's really on the bigger picture And we know that Saudis and the Emiratis, that they've invested an enormous amount of money and energy Into trying to win Congress over And it's not working Not anymore, the writing is on the wall Yeah, it's really amazing too Because it's Saudi Arabia that we're talking about here That's why Obama went along with it in the first place So, geez, the Saudis want us to do it, I guess we ought to, kind of thing And they went ahead So they sure have a lot of sway And I guess, well, in your experience up there on the Hill It started with the bombing of the bus full of children And then very soon the murder of Khashoggi is what really did it, right?
Well, I would say, you know, I think what's often missed is that the momentum has been building for a while And, you know, when I started lobbying on this, when I started talking to members of Congress And asking them to sign on to Congressman Khanna's legislation I think it was originally offered by Congressman Khanna And the late Congressman Walter Jones sadly departed us recently So, when I was talking to members of Congress about this They didn't even know that this war was going on They didn't know that the Saudis were waging a war in Yemen You know, they didn't know, this is like, you know, in 2017 I mean, they didn't know that the U.S.
Let alone that the U.S. was playing such a crucial role in enabling this kind of, you know, these mass atrocities So we went from Congress just not even knowing that it was happening To, you know, real momentum and huge shifts in U.S. policy And so we had, but I think you're right I mean, certainly the momentum had picked up with the bus bombing in August And seeing those 40 small graves And then, but then there was another important part You know, I know there's a ton of attention outside of D.C. perhaps But on the Hill it really aggravated a lot of members Which was when, you know, Secretary Pompeo issued his certification Saying that the Saudis and the Emiratis were continuing to, you know They were meeting these requirements that Congress had set up And then they, and despite all evidence to the contrary That no, they were not increasing access to, you know, humanitarian goods And, you know, they weren't coming through on their commitments But that was the claim And so the fact that, I mean, a lot of members of Congress really felt lied to by the administration And so that was very upsetting for a lot of them And made them, you know, want to do something And then of course, yes, we had the murder and dismemberment of Jamal Khashoggi And I think the momentum has just continued to build Yeah, well, and certainly I know, and I didn't mean to sell your work short I know that you and a lot of others have been working very hard on this for four years straight now And, you know, the most important work And jeez, for the payoff, I mean, it took this long to get this done It says a lot for your character that you're willing to stick to it for this long over this issue Which is so important, which as you said You can't even get these congressmen a lot of times to even acknowledge this is happening They don't know anything about it When over here, I'm looking at it like, wow You know, not just our government, but our society, our civilization Our country is in danger of being permanently labeled as the worst form of barbarians You know, for doing this to these people And yet you can't even get it on the news And you can't even get people in congress to even acknowledge that There's this medieval starvation campaign against this civilian population And we're the ones behind it This is happening, this is something Iran is doing to somebody This is something that the USA is It's crazy Anyway, I'm sorry, I'm just ranting But the level of inattention in comparison to the level of catastrophe being inflicted on these people Is just remarkable It's some kind of Guinness Book of World Records thing that it could be this way But anyway, so it is good to see And I guess, I'm sorry, back to the business The Senate is expected to pass this any week now, is that correct?
Yes, so they're going on recess next week And after they come back, so likely around early March We expect that this will be taken up on the Senate floor But we're not taking any vote for granted We need 51 votes to pass this in the Senate Of course the stakes are higher than ever It would be absolutely devastating It would send the wrong signal if this were to not pass the Senate So it's really important So the vote threshold is 51 votes We don't have to get 60, it is 51 And we do have 51 senators who voted for this as recently as December And of course the situation has only gotten worse And the warnings about millions more people on the brink of starving to death And now the Trump administration has refused to send a determination On MBS's involvement in the murder of Khashoggi And the administration has refused to comply with a law That Congress had set out to require the administration To say, okay, we're going to continue to support the Saudis And then they have to meet these certain requirements And they haven't even said anything up to Congress So there's only more reasons for more senators to support this legislation And we hope that the silver lining of this Buck Amendment Is that it will actually be easier for a number of Republicans to support it To change their vote and support it So that's what we need But the Trump administration is really working hard And no doubt Saudi-funded lobbyists and various others Are as well to try to peel Republicans off And so to prevent us from getting 51 I mean, we're talking about, there's 51 that are still in the Senate And so it's a close margin And we don't have a lot of time But yes, we do hope that we can get this through the Senate And then to the President And again, that'll be the first time we do manage to do that It'll be the first time since 1973 That a War Powers Resolution has ever gotten to the President's desk That we've ever had legislation actually enforcing The War Powers Act was passed in the Vietnam War era To prevent another Vietnam To prevent the kind of scenario where you're told Oh, you don't need, you know We don't need to involve Congress Because we're just doing some, you know Helping out in a military advisory capacity And intelligence sharing and such And so the members of Congress then thought Okay, we want to prevent that from happening They passed the War Powers Resolution to make it Really much easier for Congress to reassert itself But it's never been used all the way through I mean, it's rarely ever been invoked at all And it hasn't been, you know There hasn't been legislation passed by both chambers So this would really be historic And so important on Yemen On the worst humanitarian crisis in the world And also, but also on the broader picture Of just, you know, ending endless wars And actually getting Congress to stand up And assert itself and weigh in on war and peace As required by the Constitution Absolutely, yeah I'm sorry, hang on just one second Hey y'all, I was talking with Derek Sherriff From Listen and Think Audiobooks And he agrees with me that it's so important That the Trump White House Hears from large numbers of Americans Who support his efforts to end the wars In Syria and Afghanistan Especially from combat veterans like himself The President must hear voices of support From out here in the real world To counteract the cries of the war party In D.C. and on TV Now the phone lines are jammed But they have a pretty good email system there At whitehouse.gov Email me, scott at scotthorton.org When you do And Derek Sherriff at Listen and Think Audiobooks Will give you two free ones for your effort And now, you know what, let me make a suggestion I have no idea if this is really useful And I absolutely will let you be the judge Of whether this is useful at all But it's important to me, I guess Especially because I didn't know this And I knew that a lot of generals Back four years ago Thought this was a bad idea But it had escaped my attention Until I went and googled and found A Wall Street Journal article From January of 2015 Talking about how The Special Operations Forces Were working with the Houthis To target and kill Al Qaeda guys And that then These were the same guys who then Mark Perry was reporting in March Were so upset that now I can't believe that we're Going to go ahead and destroy these guys But I was thinking You know, there's One of the worst kind of Data points about this thing Was reported by Save the Children Foundation Famous from the commercials on TV Right, and I believe They have a great reputation among Conservatives, right, so I was thinking When you talk to the Republicans If you start with this Save the Children Foundation thing About, whoa, this is really a lot worse Than you know, let me clue you in kind of thing And then you paint it In partisan terms and go look at this Wall Street Journal article Republicans love the Wall Street Journal It says here that Obama's government The military was working with These guys because the real enemy Was Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula That did the coal bombing and tried to do The Detroit airplane bombing Those are the threat to the United States But then just a few months later Obama That dastardly Dastard Obama Made this terrible decision To turn around and take The other side of the war In a way that is actually benefiting those guys So that's how you Can, as a conservative Republican Senator, how you Can oppose this war in a way that's Not confrontational against Trump That blames this on Obama's Mistaken strategic Move here, and That the reason you're supporting it Is because you think it's time to focus back On AQAP again Now, I think that the war against AQAP Is also kind of productive and horrible and murderous However, it ain't one hundredth As bad as the rest of this war is On the other side, as I think you understand So I was trying to think of like a way To pitch this to conservatives To get them to feel like, you know In the social psychology of it or whatever To make it okay for them Not to be Rand Paul about it or some kind of thing But to be themselves And say that, yeah, this is Obama's fault This was a bad choice they made And now it's time to wrap this thing up And so, yes, I can get on board for it So sorry for going on, but Maybe you can use that a little bit Yeah, and the longer this goes on The more that we're just empowering Al-Qaeda Yeah I mean, and it's true, right?
You could show them a map where it's Here's Al-Qaeda territory now Is this giant thing It's not just a county or two It's huge areas of territory now Yes, and then, you know And you have the recent CNN reporting About how we have these U.S. weapons That we sold to the Saudis And to the Emiratis And then they have transferred them To Al-Qaeda And another, you know And the Houthis too, right?
Both sides of the war there, on the ground Right And that's CNN saying that, that's amazing Right, right Including, I mean, these are, you know, MRAPs And so, yeah, if you want to give I mean, for all the You know, exaggeration that you hear In D.C., you know, on the Hill About Iran's role Yeah, if you give the Houthis The, you know, MRAPs And then it does make it pretty easy For Iranian intelligence to Take a look at that and get a better idea Of how to more You know, how to kill more American soldiers I mean, it's crazy to think That, you know, we're still here And we heard this on the floor Of course, for the opposition To this legislation Saying that this is This would embolden Iran or Al-Qaeda When, of course, all the evidence is to the contrary And then, you know, we also have The AP reporting about how The UAE has, I mean, literally been paying off You know, Al-Qaeda Fighters and then recruiting them to the ranks And hundreds of them, so And committing horrific war crimes In their prisons as well Right, right Certainly, yes Yeah, I mean, there was a brand new one out Like that as well, recently Or maybe Was that another AP story about Severe, severe atrocities Going on in those prisons Yes, yes, yes I did see, yes So listen, I mean, I just can't thank you enough For this work, and a sincere Congratulations to you, because you deserve A big part of the share Of the credit for your effort here Oh gosh I know you've worked on this, you know, day in and day out I mean, you're in Congress now and rallying people And educating them on it and every other thing So thank you Because you're right, this is a world historical thing They're invoking the War Powers Act for the very first time Ever here in the US House Yes, exactly It's really exciting And it's been, you know, so Exhilarating to be part of You know, this big effort I mean, I would say, it's just You know, not very often do you have this Coalition where it's Freedom America and Freedom Works And Presbyterian Church USA And, you know, and then Win Without War, all the peace groups And then various Yemeni-American groups So, I mean, there's just So many amazing organizations That have been part of this big You know, progressive movement groups Indivisible and Move On and Credo And, you know, it's just It's really exciting to see that And then I know the Libertarian Institute And, you know, so There's been lots, a whole range Of different groups that have been involved in this And, you know, Congressman Khanna Has really been leading the charge in the House And And also I'm just thinking of the Of the late Congressman Walter Jones Because he really has been, was a champion Of it from the very beginning And I wish he could have, you know, been there For this final passage of it But Yeah, he just barely missed it He must have known that it was sure to pass Coming up here That's true Right, because, I mean, that was As soon as the Democrats won the midterm It was clear that The vote was close enough last fall That once the Democrats come And Pelosi, I guess, had already committed To letting it come to the floor and whatever, right So he must have known that it was going to go through Yeah, that's a good point Poor old guy But yeah Well, listen Again, thank you so much and congratulations on this And it's the most important work that there is To be doing, I think So, hell yeah for you And keep us updated I'll be checking my email box It's the Friends Committee on National Legislation Oh, by the way You want to tell them how they can support the FCNL?
Yes, thank you Yes, you can go to FCNL.org And you can sign up for our List there and get action alerts And you can go to our Middle East page FCNL.org slash Middle East And get more information about Yemen About other work we're doing to end these wars Alright And right here on the front page at FCNL.org Is House Votes to End U.S. War in Yemen So you can read all those details there And how to chip in So thank you very much again for your time, Kate Awesome Thank you so much, Scott.
Take care Alright you guys, Kate Gould From the Quaker Lobby up there In Washington, D.C.
What would we ever do without them, seriously Alright y'all, thanks Find me at LibertarianInstitute.org At ScottHorton.org AntiWar.com And Reddit.com slash ScottHortonShow Oh yeah, and read my book Fool's Errand Timed and the War in Afghanistan At Fool's Errand.us
