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Sorry I'm late.
I had to stop by the Wax Museum again and give the finger to FDR.
We know Al Qaeda, Zawahiri is supporting the opposition in Syria.
Are we supporting Al Qaeda in Syria?
It's a proud day for America.
And by God, we've kicked Vietnam syndrome once and for all.
Thank you very, very much.
I say it, I say it again.
You've been had.
You've been took.
You've been hoodwinked.
These witnesses are trying to simply deny things that just about everybody else accepts as fact.
He came.
He saw us.
He died.
We ain't killing they army.
We killing them.
We be on DNA like say our name, been saying, say it three times.
The meeting of the largest armies in the history of the world.
Then there's going to be an invasion.
All right, y'all.
Introducing Shireen Al-Adeemi.
She is a Yemeni and is now completing her doctoral studies at Harvard University and has written this very important article at In These Times, What the Deployment of Green Berets to the Saudi Yemen Border Tells Us About America's Dirty War.
Welcome to the show.
How are you doing?
I'm doing well.
Thanks so much for having me.
Alyssa, I really appreciate your work here and for joining us on the show very much.
So the Green Berets now.
So we know that there have been special operations forces of various descriptions fighting or doing missions, you know, from time to time, most against civilians, but attempting to fight against al-Qaeda forces in the south of the country at different times, and especially right when Donald Trump came into power in January and early February 2017.
But now this is a whole other question.
Special operations forces on the ground fighting against the Houthis, as you say here, revealed by the New York Times.
So first and foremost, just tell us everything we know about the details here.
Right.
So you mentioned that special forces are already in Yemen.
That technically, their fight against al-Qaeda through drone warfare or otherwise is technically, you know, authorized by Congress under the Authorization for Use of Military Force, AUMF.
But the U.S. involvement in Yemen over the last three years, since 2015, in helping the Saudi Arabians and the UAE military, you know, bomb and control various parts of Yemen, that is not authorized by Congress.
Congress has already said this is unauthorized.
There's no reason that the U.S. should be there.
The Houthis pose no threat to the Americans and, you know, this is just another development now.
We're uncovering, we're learning more about the degree of involvement of the U.S. in helping the Saudis.
And so they're saying here, and I'm sorry, honestly, I've been so swamped with work lately, I never even had a chance to read the New York Times story yet.
Are they saying that these special forces are, the Green Berets, that they are in, staying on the Saudi side of the border and just targeting, or they're crossing the border into northern Yemen?
They're saying that they're on the Saudi border, but it's interesting.
So they're deliberately vague about it, in other words.
Right.
So the Saudi Yemeni border is the only front where Saudis and Yemenis are in direct contact with one another.
So Saudi Arabia, even though they've been involved in Yemen over the past three years, their foot soldiers, the soldiers on the ground, are not Saudi Arabian.
They're mercenaries from Blackwater, from Colombia, from various countries, Senegal, Sudan.
But in the only time where Yemenis and Saudi soldiers are fighting face to face is at the Saudi Yemeni border.
And so the U.S. special forces being deployed in the Saudi border means that they're in direct combat then with the Houthis in Yemen.
So in other words, it's the same sort of scenario as in Iraq War III, where they're embedded with the Peshmerga, or in the war in Syria, where they're embedded with the YPG and white officers with native soldiers in the old British fashion, so to speak.
Right, right.
Okay.
So, I mean, and is that really the implication that they really are running the war there on the ground, rather than just helping on these specific anti-missile missions or whatever it is?
I mean, we're learning more and more.
So initially, there's been conflicting reports about whether or not the U.S. is helping the Saudis target, you know, various positions in Yemen.
Of course, we know that the civilian death toll and injury toll in Yemen has been huge.
You know, human rights groups have accused Saudi Arabia of being indiscriminate in their attacks on civilians.
So when the U.S. Army says that they're helping them target or they're not helping them target, then what are they doing there?
We know that they're helping with mid-air refueling.
So when Saudi air jets that we sold, so of course there's the whole weapons industry too, the Saudi jets that are flying around Yemen bombing various civilian and non-civilian structures, the U.S. military helps them refuel mid-air.
So that's involvement enough for Congress to twice invoke the War Power Resolution to try to extricate the U.S. out of Yemen, because we're saying that constitutes direct involvement in the war in Yemen.
And now we're learning that there are special forces on the ground.
And of course, this is just slowly uncovering.
So for all we know, they could also be in the targeting room, as The Guardian had reported a couple of years ago.
Yes.
And in fact, that was the Wall Street Journal and the L.A. Times all had extensive coverage of the extent of American involvement with all of that.
And the New York Times at one point talked all about that.
So and now, well, I'll go ahead and bring this up because I think it's so important and I'd really like to get confirmation of it.
I bet it's probably true.
But I've heard it's, it's funny, it's hearsay, but it's double hearsay.
So it's Andrew Coburn, the great journalist has one unconfirmed source.
And also, former ambassador by the name of Dan Simpson also had one unconfirmed source.
So that's two sources claiming that there were American pilots, either, you know, active duty Air Force or possibly recently retired contractors who are actually flying in the back seats of the F-15s, holding the Saudi princelings little hands all the way to their targets there to bomb civilians, you know, making them far more complicit.
And even if they're mercenaries, that would absolutely have to be approved by the Pentagon and the White House.
Right.
I've heard reports of that before.
Again, the U.S. Pentagon...
Oh, you have too, huh?
Do you have another source for me?
Do you remember?
I don't, unfortunately, but I've just been following some people on Twitter who are saying that, you know, this is also being heard on the ground in Yemen.
But I mean, at what point do we say this is America's war on Yemen?
If we're training soldiers, Saudi soldiers, if we're refueling their airplanes, if we're selling them billions in arms, if we're in the targeting room and now, you know, there's special forces on the ground, what more evidence do we need that we are directly involved in that war?
It's our war as much as it is the Saudis' war on Yemen.
I think at this point, you know, even before this revelation of the Green Berets being involved at the Saudi-Yemeni border, Congress, you know, twice, once in the House, once in the Senate, tried to invoke the War Powers Resolution to end the U.S. involvement in Yemen, declaring it unauthorized.
And so, you know, more evidence, I think, just strengthens this view that the U.S. is involved.
But we already know that they're pretty much involved in this war and have been from the very beginning.
Yeah.
Well, OK, so a couple of important things there.
You know, first of all, Nasser Araby, who's a journalist there in Sana'a, has told me for years, you know, we've been covering this whole thing all along, that the people there in Sana'a, they call it the American war.
I mean, for them, this plausible deniability is not plausible at all.
Of course, all of this, as you just said quite well, is all carried out and could only be carried out with the help of the Americans and including, I forget if you mentioned, the naval blockade that the American Navy is, you know, complicit in supporting offshore.
I mean, if they're not, quote unquote, directly the ones enforcing it, of course they are.
They rule the seven seas.
Everyone knows that.
So.
Well, they're saying that they're patrolling the area and they're checking for Iranian vessels.
Well, what does that mean then?
You know, what is a blockade if not, you know, presence in that area and checking various vessels that come through?
And the Saudis have a complete blockade on all commercial traffic.
The only ships that are allowed into the Hodeidah port on the Red Sea are UN and Red Cross type, you know, international aid organizations.
But all commerce is banned, has been for three years.
Right.
And and what happened in November of last year is that they even stopped for a number of weeks, the UN and all sorts of various organizations, ships from entering the country as well.
So they imposed a total blockade.
So it's in their hands what comes in and what comes out of the country.
And you know, most people are trapped within because they've shut down airports and such.
So, yeah, the Saudis are using starvation as a weapon of war.
They say they have confirmed themselves.
Yeah, we're trying to start the Houthis.
Well, you know, they're labeling all of Yemen's population as the Houthis, just like when they say we're only bombing Houthi civilians or Houthi targets.
Well, when children are dying, then they must be Houthis, too, I suppose.
And so, you know, we're helping them blockade an entire country.
It's a war crime to use starvation as a as a weapon.
It's war crime.
It's a war crime to bomb civilians and homes and schools and hospitals and populated areas.
And we continue to increase our support to the Saudis.
And now, yeah, and back to your other point, it's also criminal to wage this war without authorization from Congress, because again, as you said, this is not a war under any pretext that could be construed as part of the war on terrorism against al-Qaeda or any sort of associated forces.
If anything, this is a war for al-Qaeda in Yemen against their enemies, the Houthis, on the other side.
And then, as you said, they just had this vote in the Senate about this.
It was Mike Lee, the Republican from Utah, and Bernie Sanders, the socialist Democrat from Vermont, of course, that co-sponsored this and tried to invoke the War Powers Act for the first time in history to force an end to this war.
And the Trump administration lied right to their faces and said there were no boots on the ground helping in any way.
And so this should give them the opportunity to hold a re-vote, right, and maybe force this issue again.
Absolutely.
This is the time now, you know, so the report, the New York Times article said that the boots on the ground were, you know, in December, they were there in December, deployed in December.
And this vote in Congress, in the Senate, happened in early March.
And so they went into this vote, which they voted to table, they didn't even vote on the issue itself, they voted to table it.
But they were lied to, they were told that we didn't have boots on the ground, how could you invoke the War Powers Resolution?
Even then, Bernie Sanders, Mike Lee, and Chris Murphy invoked the War Powers Resolution because they said even if we're just providing mid-air refueling, that constitutes an act of war.
Right.
Which, of course, it does.
I mean, as you said, at what point do you call it an American war?
All along.
All along.
From the very beginning, of course.
And like you said, in Yemen, you know, there are posters and graffiti on the streets in Sana'a, you know, various parts in Yemen.
People know this is America's war in Yemen.
When you're seeing that these planes have been sold to the Saudis, or American planes, the bombs that land on people in their homes have American serial numbers on them.
When you know that there are generals in Saudi Arabia training, and the U.S. Army, you know, they boast about how many contracts they have.
They say they have 123 contracts in Saudi Arabia totaling more than $120 million per month where they update and refuel and vehicles, and they manage, you know, all sorts of things with the Saudis.
At what point do you say, well, okay, the Saudis are, you know, they're holding their hands throughout this war.
How much longer can they really wage this war without American support?
Well, the consensus is it's really not much longer, given how much they depend on U.S. weapons and U.S. support, logistical and military support.
Yeah.
In other words, Donald Trump doesn't even need to lift a finger to move a pen one inch.
All he has to do is say out loud, turn the war off, and it's over like a light switch.
That's it.
It's over.
I mean, they also depend on the U.K., but by far, you know, U.S. support is the most extensive in this war.
Right.
I mean, for that matter, Trump would, in effect, be calling off the U.K.'s war, too.
They're not going to do anything without us.
Exactly.
And so, you know, this was, unfortunately, consensus between, there's very little areas where there's overlap between Trump and Obama policy, but this seems to be an area where both administrations have agreed to continue to bomb this country that's already the poorest in the Middle East.
It's posed no threat to its neighbors or to anybody else.
And yeah, the war goes on because America continues to support the Saudis extensively.
And you saw the trip that Mohammed bin Salman, the crown prince, this is his war.
He's the defense minister and the crown prince.
He waits.
He began this war in Yemen.
You saw what happened when he came to the U.S.
You know, Trump was boasting about all the different weapons that, you know, they've been selling to him.
And, you know, he went around meeting Lockheed, people from Lockheed Martin and all sorts of, you know, people from all over to try to ensure that these contracts continue because the Saudis don't manufacture weapons themselves.
They don't train their, you know, they rely on the U.S. to train their soldiers, to train their military personnel, to refuel their planes and so on.
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Yeah.
And, you know, as Patrick Cockburn and other observers pointed out at the time, part of the reason that then Deputy Crown Prince bin Salman launched that war was he had just been made the defense minister.
And so, he had to kill some people to prove what a tough guy he was.
He was only 29 years old at the time.
And he had to, you know, make a stand.
And because, of course, we see his strategy has been to marginalize all his uncles and cousins and make himself his father's heir in this way, in this alliance with the Americans.
And this was a big part of it.
It was just domestic politics in Saudi Arabia that he had to be the one in charge of running this war.
Operation Decisive Storm, they called it.
They're getting a corner in the market on American operational irony there.
But so, now, here's the thing, too.
I've got to mention this every time because I think everybody can memorize this phrase and it's so worth quoting and pointing out.
Because as you said, it's a war crime to start a war.
It's illegal.
It's a criminal felony to start a war.
And in this case, that's exactly what they did.
And they acknowledged it in the paper of record.
It wasn't some scoop.
It was an official press release by the Obama administration to the New York Times based on I think 17 White House sources, something like that, 13 or I think it was 17.
And right at the beginning, they say that they knew that the war would be long, bloody, and indeterminate.
In other words, they had no idea how it could possibly succeed.
Like what are they going to do?
Put Hadi back on the throne?
Yeah, right.
Long, bloody, and indeterminate, but that they had to do it to placate the Saudis.
That's the quote.
Placate the Saudis over the Iran nuclear deal, which of course secured Saudi Arabia's interests by locking down Iran's nuclear program and protecting them from the threat of an Iranian nuke.
But that wasn't their fear.
Their fear was that Obama was leading a tilt back toward the Persians against the Arabs, and no way.
And so, this was part of making sure to keep America on Saudi's reservation, was by launching this war, and Obama went along with it.
So just like when he said he decided to bomb Libya 51% to 49%, in other words, he's a guilty war criminal.
He started a war that he did not have to start against a country that never attacked us in any way, and for the most cynical and cheap of political reasons, and he knew it would be horrifying, bloody, quote, and did it anyway.
Great.
And let me give you another figure.
So people often report that there have been at least 10,000 civilians have been killed by this war, and this is a number that the UN stopped counting since January 2017, even though there have been bombings every single day since then.
But another figure that's less reported is the 113,000 Yemeni children, 63,000 in 2016 and 50,000 in 2017, who died because there's no food coming into the country.
They're ill from diseases that are preventable, such as cholera and diphtheria.
113,000 children have to lose their lives because we are going along with some kind of fantasy that Saudi Arabia has that Iran is involved in Yemen.
There's no evidence for Iranian influence in Yemen to the degree that the Saudis are saying.
But all these Yemeni children are dying because there's no food, there's no clean water, there are diseases that are rampant, there are airstrikes every single day that are terrorizing civilians across the country, and there's no end in sight.
And we could end this, but we choose not to.
We choose to increase our support to the Saudis.
So hey, tell me all about Yemen.
Everything that you think might be interesting to the audience to know about this country that our country is destroying.
So it's a long history, has a long history with a prominent civilization in that area.
If you've heard of the Queen of Sheba, well, she ruled from Yemen.
If you like coffee, Yemenis are the first to brew and export coffee into the world.
And it's fallen on hard times since, you know, colonial times.
So North Yemen was colonized by the Turks, South Yemen was colonized by the British.
The countries tried unifying after each separate country had its own revolution.
And you know, it's been in crisis since then.
But, you know, things were looking hopeful around 2011 when there was an Arab Spring and people were hoping to reclaim their own fate by revolting.
And then, you know, foreign powers got involved and they hijacked the revolution, they hijacked the people's revolution.
We have countries in the Gulf area, basically Saudi Arabia, UAE, Qatar, Bahrain, all of those countries are involved, and they've been involved in Yemen's history to try to prevent any kind of government from taking power that would not serve their interests in the area.
So it's really unfortunate.
It's just, you know, countries, there's still a lot of hope, there's still a lot of resistance.
And many of us just keep trying to end this war so that we can pick up the pieces.
Yeah, now, so, of course, Hillary Clinton and the, you know, helped with the Saudi intervention there in 2011 and the fake election of 2012 where they put Hadi on the throne there.
But say, for example, if America had not intervened, or even better for this hypothetical, I guess, if they had told their Arab allied states on the peninsula to stay out of it and go ahead and let the Yemeni people work this out their own way, what do you think would have happened then?
We would have had a unity government.
We had signed agreements for to form a unity government to try to make sure that everybody has a say in the country, that everybody's represented, that we're no longer ruled by dictatorship under this fake democracy that Ali Abdullah Saleh had us believing that we were in for 33 years, we would have controlled our own destiny.
And so it's really unfortunate because we had, you know, the people, there's a revolutionary spirit in the country.
In the 60s, despite foreign intervention actually by the Saudis and the British, the Yemenis managed to have a revolution, a republican government in the north.
And in the south, again, despite influence from external factors, we expelled the British from our country.
And there was this spirit of revolution, the spirit of democracy in that country that's very different from its neighboring countries that are either kingdoms or sultanates or emirates.
And so, you know, it's being poor is something that unfortunately means that we are not allowed to control our own destiny.
And you have these, we're surrounded by these extremely wealthy neighbors whose concern is to dominate Yemen.
Of course, Yemen sits on the tip of the Arabian Peninsula where they control Bab el-Mandeb where about 4 million barrels of oil travel every single day.
And so there's a strategic location there that the U.S. and Saudi Arabia and other countries have an interest in controlling.
And you know, people are now paying the price of all of this war and intervention.
So what do you think of the rise of the Houthis and their displacement of the Hadi government in 2015, which was Saudi and Obama's pretext to start this war?
Right.
So the Houthis actually don't pose any threat to the Saudis or to the Americans.
What about to the Yemenis?
Well, you know, they are Yemenis themselves and Yemenis get to have the right to choose what is best for them.
The Houthis had joined the 2011 revolution like everybody else did.
And they were part of that unity government that was signed with Hadi.
And you know, Yemenis were willing to have everybody be represented in the government, including the Houthis.
But you know, the problem for Saudi Arabia became that up until the Houthis rise to power, Saudi Arabia has had somebody in power in Yemen who's willing to serve their interests.
So Ali Abdullah Saleh was willing to serve Saudi interests for many years.
The Hadi government, of course, as we know, I mean, they're based out of Riyadh right now and they're condoning this attack on their country.
So, of course, they're seen in Yemen as Saudi puppets.
The one group in Yemen that was not willing under any circumstance to adhere to anything that Saudi Arabia had to say was the Houthis.
One of their platforms in the 90s when they became a problem for Ali Abdullah Saleh was that their objection to foreign intervention in Yemen, whether that was Saudi intervention or U.S. intervention, and, of course, their objection to corruption in the government.
So that's why Saudi is bombing Yemen, because they do not want a government in power in Yemen that is not going to serve their own interests there.
But it's up to Yemenis to decide who's best for them.
If it's Houthis, if it's a combination of different forces or groups, then that should be something that a sovereign country gets to decide on its own, not something that other governments decide for this country.
Yeah.
Well, and, you know, it's kind of sad to hear you talk about the history of forcing the British out.
You know, Eric Margulies, the great journalist, his mother, after World War II, went and traveled all around the region.
And he says it's, you know, part of all of her journalism from then.
And I guess there's sort of journalistic family lore about how the Arab populations all love the Americans for the simple reason that we had never really killed them yet.
And we had forced the British out.
We had set the precedent that they can be killed.
And so this was, you know, made America basically gave us the benefit of the doubt in the minds of Arab populations everywhere that, you know, we might look like the British, but we don't act like them.
But then, yeah, no, it turns out that we inherited the British empire and then began acting like them immediately, unfortunately.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But, yeah, I mean, you could see that common history as the basis for a great friendship if it wasn't for, you know, the deliberately inflicted famine.
And, you know, by the way, Nasser Araby, the journalist in Sanaa that I've been talking to this whole time, you know, he says he counts upwards of 50,000 killed in the airstrikes.
And it's not surprising at all.
There's no way for us to know right now how many people have been killed.
But this 10,000 figure is severely underreported.
And then, you know, we have the figures of how many children were killed or dead, died in 2016 and 2017, but how many men and women died in those two years, you know, and the war is now entering its fourth year.
What is the true number?
It's really actually, it's terrifying to think about how many people have lost their lives.
And those aren't the people that are on, you know, that you would hear about.
You won't know their names.
You won't learn their stories.
They're just numbers, you know, and it's just lost.
Nobody really cares.
Nobody bats an eye.
Nobody reports when an airstrike happens in Yemen, unless it's something very devastating like, you know, lost a couple of weeks ago when there was an airstrike on a wedding where the bride was killed and 32 other people were killed along with her.
And there's just so there's no reason for any of this.
You know, it's a poor country.
We don't even have an air defense system.
So it's a country that's completely defenseless when it comes to this barrage of international attack and the blockade.
And it's, you know, the U.N. says it's the worst humanitarian crisis on Earth.
It's not an exaggeration.
It really is the worst humanitarian crisis on Earth.
Yeah.
Well, and we've seen in recent history how this works, too, in Somalia and in Iraq and in Afghanistan, where it's not just the people who get bombed to death, but it's also just the fact that hospitals are being destroyed, of course, in the air war, but also just the roads are destroyed and people are so poor and there's, you know, gasoline can't be distributed for any kind of price anyone can afford to pay.
And this sort of thing leads to and just overall hunger.
And this is we talked with the aid workers about this and the Doctors Without Borders guys and all that about just the hunger means that you could die of the flu much more.
People die of the flu even in America, but you could die of the flu much more easily or die of the kinds of diseases that people usually can tolerate.
But they can't because they're hungry or worse, starving.
And so they just drop dead.
So this is will only be measured after the fact in what they call the excess death rate that people are dying of deprivation, basically, from before and after the war.
Right.
And think of how simple it is to treat cholera.
If you are infected with cholera, the treatment is hydration with clean water, you know, right.
And there's no clean water for people to drink.
That's why they're getting infected in the first place.
And then, you know, they can't be cured because they can't find clean water.
People are drinking, you know, contaminated water and contracting more diseases.
And so, yeah, the effect is much, much wider than you'd expect when there's a when there's a blockade, not just the bombing, but a total blockade.
Yeah.
And that's also because the Saudis, again, with American cover, move the central bank down to aid and stop paying all the civil, all the civil service workers, all the garbage workers in the north and their entire thing fell apart.
So that helps.
And the north, you know, 80 percent of the population lives in the north.
And so anybody working with working with the health ministry or the education ministry or all of those civil servants, nobody's been paid for the last two years.
Yeah, I mean, it's just it's just like in the case of Somalia across the way there.
This is the most powerful country in world history, picking on the weakest again, doing the same thing again, picking on a bunch of civilians and all for a policy that just like in Somalia makes no sense whatsoever and only makes everything worse for everyone.
And I think in Yemen, you know, people who've been so involved in destroying the country to its core have no right to then introduce any sort of policy or be part of any negotiations, you know, or any peace talks, because we're saying that, oh, you know, we're basically saying that arsonists can be firefighters, which is absolutely should not be the case.
I just hope that the Congress will follow through on this and they would introduce legislation now that they know that they've been misled and there's more evidence of U.S. involvement in Yemen, that they would introduce legislation.
And I'd hope that your listeners would just take a minute and call their representatives in the Senate, in the House and tell them, hey, you know, introduce something that stops the U.S. war in Yemen.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, absolutely.
And you know what?
Despite or maybe in spite of the lack of TV media coverage about this, the alternative media is, you know, really interested in this and really upset about it and want to fight about it.
And there was, you know, quite a little bit of a grassroots uprising about this last fall when the House had a resolution.
There's a lot of support for the Senate resolution on something that, you know, TV is in a sense telling us to just forget about and that doesn't concern us or something.
And people are concerned about it anyway.
I think maybe even, like I was saying, sort of in reaction to that, when they do know a little something about it.
Exactly.
And so, I don't know, I'm sorry, I got to go.
But I could talk to you all day about this.
But I see here you got three more articles, four total here at In These Times.
I wonder, do you have an article about the Arab Spring in Yemen and what could have been before Hillary came to town and that kind of thing?
I would love to read that.
I have.
I've written something, just a very brief background, but I should probably sit down and write something more extensive to try to paint that picture.
Yeah, please do.
And, you know, of course, we'd love to spotlight it at antiwar.com and I'd really like to see a good review of that history.
Absolutely.
Great.
Well, listen, thank you so much.
I'm following you on Twitter now, so be looking forward to reading more of your work and having you back on.
Sounds good.
Thanks so much for having me.
Okay.
Thanks.
Everybody, that is Shireen Al-Ademi and she's writing at In These Times, what the deployment of Green Berets to the Saudi Yemen border tells us about America's dirty war.
Always great to have new voices on the Yemen war here.
All right.
If you guys know the deal, foolsaron.us for the book, scotthorton.org and youtube.com slash scotthortonshow for all the interviews, 4,500 of them now, going back to 2003 for you there.
Read what I want you to read at antiwar.com and at libertarianinstitute.org and follow me on Twitter at scotthortonshow.
Thanks.
