Alright, y'all welcome to the show, it's Santi War Radio, second hour here, we're at lrn.fm and chaosradioaustin.org and our next guest on the show today is Grant F. Smith, he runs IRMEP, I-R-M-E-P dot org, that's the Institute for Research on Middle East Policy.
Welcome back to the show Grant, how are you doing?
Great Scott, thanks for having me on to talk anti-war here.
Right on, well I'm happy to have you back, looks like you've got a big deal going on here.
Yeah, absolutely, we're hosting an event at the International Spy Museum in Washington D.C. tomorrow at 10 a.m., and it's to talk about something that is to kind of break a policy of collaborating with Israel's policy of strategic ambiguity on nuclear weapons.
Yeah, you know, I'm not so sure I get that strategic ambiguity thing, since everybody in the world, what, six billion something and change of us, know that they have nuclear weapons, according to Daniel Ellsberg, he says, Mordechai Venunu says they have at least 600, including hydrogen bombs, we all know they have nuclear submarines and all this, so what is exactly the purpose of this strategic ambiguity, is it just to keep them from having to sign the Non-Proliferation Treaty?
Well, it goes beyond that, as Israel's largest sponsor, the United States, at first, back in the early 1960s, was eager to keep Israel from acquiring nuclear weapons, but after JFK and during the Johnson administration, you had people like Abraham Feinberg, who's a big Democratic Party fundraiser, who was actually designated by Ben-Gurion to get together Americans to help fund the Israeli nuclear weapons program, and you had Johnson who...
The same people who Ben-Gurion is.
Yeah, David Ben-Gurion was first the head of the Jewish Agency, which is a global non-profit that was charged with settling Jews in Palestine, and then became Prime Minister of Israel after its War of Independence, so he came in to the United States before Israel was formed and set up a gigantic conventional arms smuggling network, but also had many contacts with Americans to acquire nuclear weapons as quickly as possible, and a lot of that history is documented in Abner Cohen's excellent book, Israel and the Bomb, which is the product of a lot of declassified documents that have never seen the light of day.
But at any rate, the U.S. collaboration with strategic ambiguity isn't really about so much the nuclear non-proliferation treaty or anything like that.
It's really an arrangement where the Israelis have convinced the U.S. presidential administration not to discuss Israeli nuclear weapons on the pretext that Israel would not be the first to introduce weapons into the region, and by introduce they meant not test or not openly declare they have them.
And so what the policy really does, as so many things involving Israel, it takes an entire gigantic issue, which Americans should be intensely interested in, off the table.
It's become taboo to talk about it.
In fact, to my knowledge, no one has ever even hosted a conference dedicated 100% to Israel's nuclear weapons arsenal and the policy implications of that arsenal.
All right, now give us specifics about when and where and how people can get there and what's the address and what phone number do they call for information and what website do they go to to look for the Google map?
Yeah, yeah.
So the event is called the Israeli Nuclear Arsenal, Espionage, Opacity and Future, and it's being held in the International Spy Museum special events room.
It's an RSVP-only event because that room has a limited capacity.
It's at 800 F Street Northwest in Washington, D.C., 20004.
And people can register online at irmep.org if they're actually in town and could actually go to the event for people who are around D.C., Virginia, Maryland, etc.
This is right near the Chinatown Metro stop down in D.C.
It's a beautiful place.
It's a wonderful venue.
It absolutely exudes the taboo of secrecy and things going on that normal people don't know about.
So that's one of the reasons we picked it as the venue.
And the people who will be talking will be Sasha Polakow-Saransky, who's editor of Foreign Affairs who's come out with this amazing book called The Unspoken Alliance, Israel's Secret Relationship with Apartheid South Africa.
We're hoping to understand more fully whether Israel's a proliferation threat.
If in fact they are willing or were willing to sell weapons to apartheid South Africa, I guess the question becomes today, when cash is so tight around the world, would they be willing to sell to Georgia or some other state that's equally, not in the same predicament, but isolated, small, looking to defend itself and exert power?
We've also got John J. Mearsheimer, who is a University of Chicago professor.
He's most famous for his book, The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy, but he's written a book much more relevant to this called The Tragedy of Great Power Politics, where he talks about aggressive realism and how countries pursuing power and seeking advantages over rival operate in the international system.
We're trying to understand from him whether this entire policy of strategic ambiguity is going to be likely to continue into the future and exactly what, if any, benefit it's ever had for Israel to have nuclear weapons that are outside the control of the United States.
And then finally, I'm going to be talking about some recently cut off the press's declassified documents, which we hope are kind of the first drips and drabs for a flood of information that should be coming out under mandatory declassification reviews if we can win some ice cap panels and a few court cases, if necessary.
So let's go through these subjects in order of guest on your panel here, again, it's tomorrow, Wednesday, July 7th, at the Spy Museum in Washington, D.C.
Now you're saying this woman, Saransky, is the editor of Foreign Affairs?
Yeah, Sasha is, he's a dude, he's the editor of Foreign Affairs magazine, and he's at the Council on Foreign Relations.
He's worked to make this amazing book in which he basically went to South Africa and got the new government to disclose all of the dealings of the previous apartheid regime, and in particular their dealings with Shimon Peres in Israel to negotiate the sale of Jericho nuclear-tipped missiles to the apartheid regime.
He's done an amazing thing in being able to play off the Israelis, the South Africans and some other archives in order to get a full account, and he's produced something that I highly respect in terms of research and analysis.
There are a lot of books out there with wonderful research, but then the analysis is kind of bogus.
This thing is just amazing in terms of telling the story of how, by adopting certain actions, Israel kind of risks becoming more and more like the apartheid South Africa regime.
But we're really asking him to talk a little bit about this nuclear deal, because essentially the proof is there.
There's no real question that there was an offer of sale.
So we're moving beyond that and trying to look at some of the implications.
Boy, would I like to be a fly on the wall at the Pratt House this week, huh?
That's Council on Foreign Relations headquarters on Park Avenue there.
And now that's where Max Boot and quite a few other of these neocons have holed up over there at the Council on Foreign Relations.
Now, I wonder how that's.
Yeah, people keep telling me that it's not it's not what everybody thinks it is, which is sort of, you know, a monolithic, ideological hothouse.
There are actually.
Yeah.
And the other Scott Horton told me, hey, they let me join.
Right.
So he's a very humble guy with a lot of achievements.
All right.
Hold on, Grant.
We'll be right back.
Everybody is Grant F. Smith from Irma dot org, antiwar radio, the Spy Museum tomorrow in D.C.
You're listening to the best Liberty oriented audio streamed around the clock on the air and online.
This is the Liberty Radio Network at LRN dot FM.
All right, y'all, welcome back to the show.
It's antiwar radio.
I'm Scott Horton and I'm talking with Grant F. Smith.
He's from the Institute for Middle East Policy.
No, that's not it.
Irma dot org.
That's what it is.
And tomorrow they're doing a big conference all about Israeli nuclear weapons at the Spy Museum in Washington, D.C.
So if you live in one of them tiny little wimpy East Coast states where it's not very far for you to get to the imperial court there, I suggest you get on a government train or something and head on down.
Now, Grant, where were we?
We were talking about, oh, well, the the neocons and the and the realists over there at the CFR.
But let's skip now to my next question was going to be about John Mearsheimer.
And you said he's going to be talking about kind of the great power politics and the larger sense of the relationship between the United States and Israel and especially in regards to their nuclear arsenal.
And it seemed like a pretty good time to ask you about the Samson option.
What is the Samson option, Grant?
Well, the Samson option, according to Seymour Hersh, is the capacity to be able to pull down the walls of the temple if you should ever be existentially threatened.
Those people who watched Peter Sellers in the movie Dr.
Strangelove saw him haranguing the Soviet military figures for never disclosing the fact that they had a doomsday weapon because having a doomsday weapon is supposed to actually allow you have to make it clear to everyone you have it so that people will be deterred.
So it's an interesting dichotomy to simultaneously have strategic ambiguity, which I would say is more of a political trick, and also have the Samson option, which is the ability to target enough countries around the world to set off a major conflagration, the nuclear holocaust, across the world.
So it's a really interesting topic to discuss, but it rarely is.
Yeah, well, you know, I was reading something about the Samson option recently, and I guess, you know, I need to read the book, the Hersh book on it.
But, you know, I think they were saying in there that the Samson option didn't mean nuking Riyadh and Cairo and Damascus and Tehran.
It meant nuking all the capitals of Europe, too.
It meant, you know, maybe nuking America, too.
It meant nuking the world and saying, fine, if we can't be Israel, we'll kill all of y'all.
That's a basic premise, because what you see happening during the 1960s is kind of the privatization of American nuclear know-how and, in one case, materials and certainly economic resources raised in the United States and effectively handed over to the Israelis with absolutely no advice and consent process in place.
So what you have is the transfer of this fundamentally awesome power, which Mearsheimer would say is the only currency among great powers, against the wishes of the United States, certainly never asked or put before any advice and consent process of the American people, and shuttled off to Israel.
And in fact, one of the documents we just released today shows what is a typical part of that sort of Israel lobby, Israeli transfer of materials from the United States overseas, the offshoring of power, usually involves some cover-up and some historical editing years later, but we can get into that document later if you want.
But you mentioned Mearsheimer, you know, basically I have no idea what he's going to say at this conference.
He's been invited because he's a thinker who isn't afraid to take some pretty strong stances based on his research, and he's been involved in looking at great power politics and conventional deterrence and all sorts of strategic power issues for most of his career, and so I'm just excited that he's coming to take questions from the audience and to lay out 20 minutes of his thinking on this issue, which he's never done before.
Yeah.
Well, and I'm sure there will be some good questions in the audience, too, from the audience.
Now, I do want to get to Arlen Specter and these documents and this kind of thing, but I want to wax a little philosophical here, too, which is that this is all America's fault.
This is, if we weren't an empire, then the Israelis would have no interest in hijacking our Congress, hijacking our Pentagon, taking over our policy, stealing our nuclear weapons.
The reason they're stealing our nuclear weapons is because we have nuclear weapons, thousands and thousands of them.
We've been holding the whole world hostage for generations now, Grant, and when you look at what they do to the people of Gaza, which makes my blood boil, all it is is a miniature, tiny little friendlier version of what America did to Iraq in the 1990s, which was far worse.
And so, you know, I think that's why the Israeli government and their policies make me so angry, really, is because they're mini-me over there, and I've got to take the responsibility for my own country, putting them in the position to use us this way, including getting thousands of our guys killed to fight their war in Iraq.
Well, I don't disagree with anything you say, and one of the reasons I listen to just about every episode of your show is you've got a lot of people who are making just that point.
My personal experience living overseas for years and years is that the fundamental proposition that business follows the flag which is planted at gunpoint is really flawed, because I've been in a lot of countries where the U.S. is not appreciated, not all that welcome, but U.S. business certainly is, and U.S. cultural interchange.
So I don't disagree with anything that you say, but as an American, I would like to be able to at least believe that if I am voting for a government or if there's a set of rules in the Constitution or what have you, that there isn't going to be this sort of kleptocracy at the top that's saying one thing and doing another in a way that jeopardizes my safety and more importantly the safety of my family.
Right, you know, I guess I probably shouldn't say this on the radio, but I think it's kind of funny.
I had a dream the other night that I had refreshed the page in the morning.
I guess in the dream I'd just gotten up and I went and trudged out in front of the computer and I hit refresh on antiwar.com and it said something about crisis in the Taiwan Straits and Navy deploys and this and that, and I was thinking, well, I guess I'll be the first to know here in Los Angeles, man, when the hydrogen bombs start going off.
This is the kind of danger that these people put us in.
And by the way, they got their three-stage missile technology perfected because John Wong brought a sack full of money and handed it to Bill Clinton to lie people's moms into re-electing him in 1996 and in exchange got a job licensing the technology transfers in the Commerce Department, where Clinton had moved the jurisdiction over to the Commerce Department.
In fact, he basically retroactively legalized what was illegal and what the Justice Department was already investigating, these private companies selling this missile technology to the Chinese.
And Clinton basically shut down their investigation by legalizing what they'd done by signing another waiver and another one.
Right.
It's that kind of government activity that really should make Americans skeptical and realize that a lot of these policies, laws, and particularly Justice Department moves are aimed at them.
You know, it's kind of a farce at some level.
Yeah.
Certainly it is.
And your work helps make that abundantly clear.
We'll be right back, y'all.
All right.
All right, y'all.
Welcome back to the show.
It's Anti-War Radio.
I'm Scott Horton.
I'm talking with Grant F. Smith from the Institute for Research Middle East Policy.
That's IRMEP.org.
They're holding a big confab down at the Spy Museum in Washington, D.C. tomorrow, if you could possibly make it.
It's going to be really good.
The editor of Foreign Affairs has written a book about Israel's ties, nuclear weapons ties to South Africa.
John J. Mearsheimer is going to be talking about great power politics and the Israel lobby and American foreign policy.
And Grant F. Smith has some new Freedom of Information Act papers about, well, all kinds of interesting things.
I'm going to ask him in just a minute.
But first, I'm going to ask you what you think about Benjamin Netanyahu's at the White House or was at the White House anyway this morning.
And apparently, at least the press is saying that Obama today encouraged Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to resume talks with the Palestinians.
And I wonder, Grant, what you think of that and whether you think anything's actually going to come of this.
After all, let me set this up a little bit for more credit for Obama here.
He started out his presidency taking this on.
He didn't say, well, I'm going to try to get elected and then in my eighth year I'll do a little Annapolis thing and it'll be a big joke.
He went from the very beginning risking quite a bit taking on the Israel lobby like this.
Does he really mean it?
Does this guy stand for anything at all?
What's the deal?
I'm a skeptic because, again, the most important thing that Obama did was after being nominated, he put down a position that all negotiations over the future of Jerusalem were off.
And he basically said it was the undivided capital of Israel, something that no other country has really agreed to.
And so, you know, looking at the announcements about settlement freeze deals, we're so far past that.
Whatever happened to just an out-and-out declaration saying that there should be no more settlement building and that the existing one should be dismantled and that there will be a real negotiation between the two parties, the Palestinians and the Israelis, over the future?
All of the articles coming out, for example, this big piece in the New York Times talking about illegal settlements and how the U.S. Treasury Department continually allows millions and millions of tax-exempt donations to flow from the U.S. into these illegal settlements and how they do nothing about it.
You know, the New York Times spin on that was naming some of the smaller ones and not the big ones that are actually doing most of that, and, you know, sort of setting up some parameters, also saying it in a New York Times article that it's already kind of determined that Israel will keep a lot and annex a lot of territory.
So, you know, you've got this elite press and you've got these moves between Netanyahu and the president of the U.S. who, you know, really, essentially, when it comes down to brass tacks, you know, I don't believe that Obama is applying the amount of pressure that he could as U.S. president to actually deflate all of these, you know, issues that have such a huge impact on the United States and are the motivator of so much violence across the region and, you know, coming home to roost as well.
So I'm not really buying any of it.
Yeah.
Well, I wonder why they even bother.
I mean, why doesn't Obama just come out and say, hey, whatever Netanyahu says, everybody knows he's in charge here, and leave it at that.
I mean, it's not like it would cost him anything in a Democratic Party politics, right?
It would only make him more popular among Republicans, at least the ones with the power.
And the American people don't care at all.
In fact, why doesn't Netanyahu just kill all the Palestinians or drive them all into Jordan and Egypt?
I mean, pardon me for being so cynical about it, but I can't see how Americans would care at all, dude.
I don't know.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I guess.
And apparently it's the Americans are the only ones whose opinion counts.
Well, someone leaked Frank Luntz's last dial test, and I don't know if you know who Frank Luntz is.
I'm sure you probably know quite a bit about him.
Yeah, I'm afraid so.
Yeah, so he's out there checking American public opinion, and he found out that Americans actually do care, and that they thought Israel was brutal when they raided the Gaza aid flotilla, and that public opinion is turning.
And so presidents can go against public opinion for a long time, and we've seen that with the Vietnam War, all sorts of things that start to turn, but they can't do it forever.
And I think people are intelligent enough, those who are following this, with a microscope to see that American public opinion is turning.
I think that's one of the reasons Joe Lieberman and others want to have a kill switch on the internet, because they know that the days of New York Times spin, and working out all of these talking points and policy frameworks that are so old and tired, those days are numbered.
So I think there's a growing realization that even if they are both on the same side, even if the new sympathizers and fundraisers have so much control over campaign finance and enforce all of these talking points for Israel from the lobby, even though they're still quite powerful, they can't outrun popular opinion forever.
And they know that.
Yeah.
Well, and especially when the Hezbollah, or whatever they call it, the public relations efforts of the Israelis, they've been lying for so long that the lies now just have no semblance of reality at all.
I mean, here's the toughest guy on the block, walking around going, poor me, poor me, all day.
And how plausible is that for how many years in a row?
I mean, the Palestinians are not occupying Israel.
The Israelis are occupying Palestine.
It's pretty simple.
Well, and it's funny, because, you know, all they do is tee up the ball to Philip Weiss over at Mondo Weiss, who takes out a wood driver and pounds it completely 400 yards down the fairway.
Yeah, he's coming up next, by the way.
I won't say anything about it, but I mean, there are so many people like that who are sick of it on this topic, and all others who are willing to actually invest their time and money in speaking out.
And they've got this, again, this powerful tool called the internet that's helping level the playing field.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
All right, now, tell me about Arlen Specter, the outgoing senator from Pennsylvania.
Right.
Well, Arlen Specter was called upon by Zalman Shapiro's public relations and legal firm to pitch in to clean up his reputation.
And this is an ongoing thing.
I wrote a piece back a while ago for Anti-War called Pro-Israel Pardons, and it was talking about how all of the arms smugglers from the independence period who were stealing .50 caliber machine guns from the U.S. Marines, stealing aircraft and shoveling it all over to Palestine in violation of arms control protocols, they had to clean up the reputations of these guys.
They got presidential pardons from Kennedy, from Clinton, from Bush.
And so now there's a drive to clear Zalman Shapiro, who is in charge of the NUMEC, Nuclear Materials and Equipment Corporation, in Pennsylvania.
And this is a place that was set up with a person who is very closely tied to Israeli intelligence.
It was handling highly enriched uranium that was given from the U.S. Navy in Westinghouse to be processed into nuclear submarine fuel.
The Nuclear Regulatory Commission received a request by Arlen Specter late last year that they exonerate Zalman Shapiro and declare that he had nothing to do with any suspected diversion of uranium, highly enriched weapons-grade uranium, to Israel.
And to its credit, the Nuclear Regulatory Commission looked at the numbers, looked at what the lawyer for Shapiro said, and found most of it was bogus, and said, no, it's the position of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission that we can't issue any sort of such statement.
And then a while later, a couple of former officials published the definitive account in the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, showing that there are still large amounts missing, and that this is by no means over.
There's a little bit more to say about that as well at this time, but maybe there's not.
Yeah, well, there's not for this segment, but I'll keep you another ten if you can do it.
All righty.
All right, hang tight.
Everybody, Grant F. Smith from EarMeth, author of five books I'm about to tell you about.
All right, y'all, welcome back to the show.
It's Antiwar Radio.
I'm Scott Horton, and I'm talking with Grant F. Smith.
As was mentioned there, he does write for Antiwar.com.
It's original.antiwar.com slash Grant-Smith, or just Google his name up.
You'll see it right there on the front page.
He is the director of the Institute for Research, Middle Eastern Policy in Washington, D.C.
He's the author of the books Spy Trade, America's Defense Line, Foreign Agents, Deadly Dogma, and Neocon, Middle East Policy.
And he's holding this giant, sorry for the run-on sentence, period, he's holding a giant, awesome conference tomorrow at the Spy Museum with the editor of Foreign Affairs Journal with John J. Mearsheimer and himself, all talking about Israeli nuclear weapons, which everybody in the whole world knows don't really exist.
Nudge, nudge, wink, wink, or strike that, reverse it, whichever you want.
Okay, now, you were talking about Arlen Specter and some FOIA documents when we went out to break there, Grant.
Right, so Arlen Specter has been pressuring the Nuclear Regulatory Commission to issue, as he says, quote, a formal public statement confirming that he, meaning his constituent, Alan Shapiro, was not involved in any activities related to the diversion of uranium to Israel, unquote.
What we found out in May of this year, after we received a document classified for a quarter century by the government's accounting office, now the government's accountability office, was that there was an investigation into just that diversion of uranium, and that it was completely subverted by the CIA and the FBI, basically.
That there's certainly no grounds for exonerating anybody and giving any sort of blanket immunity in saying that there was no diversion.
And to its credit, the nuclear regulatory issue said just that.
They said, you know, Arlen, we're not going to write that letter.
You know, and this is really not about Zalman Shapiro.
This is about the theft of taxpayer-funded uranium being shipped over to Israel's Dimona nuclear weapons plant.
And what we know for sure is that Israel's top economic espionage case officer, Rafael Eitan, who was Jonathan Pollard's handler in the 80s, infiltrated NUMEC in 1968.
That he was there when all of these diversion issues were coming to the attention of the FBI, which investigated.
The FBI did say that Shapiro should have his security clearances revoked, that NUMEC should be shut down.
But when its advice wasn't taken, the FBI just dropped the case.
I guess they didn't want to be patsies, you know, running around providing political cover to somebody who was already pulling strings in the government.
But at any rate, two former nuclear regulatory officials published just in March of 2010, an exposé in the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists.
It's behind a paywall, so it's six bucks.
But anyway, you know, there's still uranium for many, many bombs missing from NUMEC.
And, you know, there's just no case.
We don't need a return receipt from Rafael Eitan to say that all circumstantial evidence points to that diversion.
And also, most of the most sensitive documents from the CIA in particular, although not exclusively, some of the FBI documents, have not yet been released.
So the idea that a senator is asking the NRC for an exoneration when the full story has not yet been made public is infuriating and vastly improper.
And I would argue this is one of the fundamental problems with strategic ambiguity, because absent strategic ambiguity and this continued governmental restriction on releasing documents about Israeli nuclear weapons, Americans don't have any say in the matter.
And they can't petition governments as is their right for redress and say, Look, this should have never happened.
And the cover-up isn't covering up anything that has to do with national security.
It's covering up cronyism.
It's covering up ineffective governments, etc.
So that's one of the problems with strategic ambiguity.
The fact that we just released those documents is only because we just received them.
We did have to file FOIAs.
It's not like they were just handing them out at the NRC.
They're up online for anyone to look at now if they have any doubts about how government works.
Yeah.
Well, now let me ask you this.
I think I asked you this before once a while back, and that was, is there any indication here, not that this would excuse it or exonerate it or anything, but I'm just curious.
Is there any indication whether there was ever any kind of presidential finding that said, Yeah, go ahead and give them nukes?
Or was this just stealing on a much lower level?
Well, that's a good question, and I think we're in the middle of the process.
If there was, in fact, a secret finding, let's say it was issued by Johnson.
A finding, by the way, everybody, that's just when the president orders the covert agencies to break the law.
If there was a secret finding by President Johnson authorizing the transfer, then I'm willing to say, okay, the circumstantial evidence pointing toward, you know, basically Israeli espionage and Ben-Gurion's nuclear network in the U.S., I would be willing to retract the statement that all of this points to Israeli diversion on their own impetus.
But it doesn't look that way.
It really doesn't.
Based on all of the documents that are public at this point, again, the fact that both Kennedy and to a lesser extent, but with some heartfelt effort, Johnson did try to fight the production of nuclear weapons in Israel.
It looks more to me like, you know, basically Israeli sympathizers in the U.S., including in the U.S. government, getting together with their friends overseas and making something happen.
And because it is embarrassing to the government and because strategic ambiguity is in place, we can't, as citizens, find out about it.
All right.
Now, tell us again all about this conference tomorrow and how people who live on the East Coast, particularly the northern part of it, I guess.
Well, you got the whole Mason-Dixon thing going there.
How can people on the East Coast see this, participate in this forum taking place tomorrow?
Who else is going to be there?
What's the address?
What's your website?
All over again, please.
Sure.
Well, it's being moderated by Jeffrey Blankford.
All of the guests that you've mentioned are coming.
If you're on the East Coast and you're serious about going, you should go to irmep.org and get registered before all of the seats are gone.
Those people who want to see it and want to see it live have really only one option, and that would be at this point to contact C-SPAN and particularly their events coordinator and say, hey, this would be an important thing for us to see.
They haven't confirmed to us whether they're going to show up, but there's certainly room for them as well if they choose to come.
So if people want to give C-SPAN a call, I think their main line is 202-737-3220.
They can certainly call the events program director and say, hey, I'm remote.
I can't go.
This is important.
We've heard Heritage, Brookings, and AEI.
Now we'd like to hear some alternative views about the situation.
That would be one way to do it.
Otherwise, basically, people have to come.
People have to be in our audience asking questions.
It's at 10 a.m.
Got to register, irmep.org, probably go until noon or 1230, and it's going to be very interesting.
And where is this again, the Spy Museum in Washington, D.C.?
Yeah, the International Spy Museum is by the Verizon Center for people who have come down to D.C. for a basketball game.
The address is 800 F Street NW, right near the Chinatown Metro in downtown D.C.
It's the main entrance, second floor.
We're up there.
Now, Grant, I really did, I tried to memorize it, but you're going to have to say the number to C-SPAN's public relations office two or three more times here.
Well, yeah, I think this is important because it's 202-737-3220.
So if people want to see the Israeli nuclear arsenal espionage of past and future with Sasha, with John Mearsheimer, with myself and Jeff Blankford, they should call that number and say, we would like to see this.
I'm in California, I'm in Hawaii, wherever.
Take my vote, I would like to see this broadcast on C-SPAN, which I pay for over my public cable service provider.
There you go.
Well, so that's all well and good, but if they don't show up, is there going to be video anyway?
It will be out at some point.
There's no streaming capability at this point, but we're not going to be hiding any of the results of this.
There will be some audio and some video, and I'll forward that to you.
Okay, great.
Well, I sure look forward to it.
I sure hope that at least some people listening on the East Coast today will be able to make it out there.
And maybe we'll try to get this posted up tonight so that some people who hear about it in the morning might be able to go as well.
Again, everybody, that's Grant F. Smith, the Institute for Research, Middle Eastern Policy, IRMEP.org.
And check out the Spy Museum in D.C. tomorrow.
Thanks, Grant.
Thanks, Scott.
All right, y'all, we'll be right back.
Chaos audience, switch over.
