07/01/10 – Kenneth O’Keefe – The Scott Horton Show

Alright y'all, welcome back to the show, it's Anti-War Radio.
I'm your host, Scott Wharton, and our first guest on the show today is Ken O'Keefe, who was pretty famous in the last couple of weeks when pictures of his bloody face were released upon his release from Israeli prison after his peace flotilla was raided.
Welcome to the show, Ken.
How are you doing?
I'm doing great.
I'm doing great.
Thanks for having me.
Well, I appreciate you joining us here.
And have your wounds from your captivity at the hands of the Israeli government healed yet?
Yeah, they basically have.
I've still got a little bit of soreness in my ribs on my right side, but it's not bad at all.
It's going to be fine.
Alright.
Well, let's talk about that part some more, and then we'll get back to the rest of the story here.
But after you were in the custody of the Israeli government, they beat you?
Yeah.
We'd been taken from the ship to the initial jail they had for us in Beersheba, down in southern Israel.
And a couple days later, we were transported to Ben Gurion Airport, and it was there that I got whacked over the head, choked to the point of nearly blacking out, and kicked or punched in the ribs.
And then I got another beating later that night in the cell as well.
Alright, now, so let's get back to really what should be the first question, which is why were you part of the Gaza peace flotilla?
Well, I've come to the conclusion that, you know, I think an obvious truth, really, when we open our eyes and start to see the world for what it is, I have one human family, and that includes the Israelis as well.
But amongst my human family are the Palestinian people, and although they're not the only suffering people, they have been enduring a brutal occupation for many, many decades now.
The amount of injustice that has been heaped on them is just hard to fathom, really.
Having been there several times, I can tell you that these people are the most dignified people despite all of the indignity and injustice that just rains down on them.
And what's happening in Gaza, the collective punishment of 1.5 million people, which includes 800,000 children, innocent children, who are being subjected to concentration camp-type conditions.
I mean, it's not a death camp yet, they're not openly exterminating, but it is not dissimilar from a concentration camp or the Warsaw Ghetto.
And to allow this to happen is to say that you don't have any real power, that the world is just some sort of immovable object of which you can do nothing.
And to me, that's a cop-out, that's a lie.
The truth is that we have the power to do whatever we set our minds to.
And the Freedom Flotilla, obviously, right, I knew from the start, and I knew from previous projects that I've been on, had tremendous power.
And obviously, as history has played it out now, none of this talk about ending the blockade, easing the blockade, UN resolution to call for the end of the blockade, the EU calling for the end of the blockade, Egypt collaborating with Israel, with bribe money from the United States, building a wall 40 feet down to keep Rafa even more sealed off.
They certainly had no intention of opening up Rafa, and the Israelis have no intention of it.
Yet, a group of relatively small amount of people on a few ships, which we look in terms of the world and all the resources we have and all the people, it's very, very small.
That shows how much power we have.
Those of us who have a conscience, who can shed the fear, act intelligently in a united way, we can achieve anything we want, and we're going to achieve the end of this blockade in the not-too-distant future.
Well, I'm interested in how you got on this path.
I've, I guess, heard them say in different interviews that you're a veteran of the First Gulf War, and I was wondering if it was an experience during that war that made a peacenik out of you, or it was after you came home, or how did that evolve?
Yeah, actually, it wasn't in the Gulf War itself.
It was while I was in the Marine Corps, though.
I ended up speaking out about something.
You know, one of the things that I believe when I joined the Marine Corps, they have such great commercials, and I know every American knows the Marine Corps commercials, and they always, you know, pump the whole idea of honor and integrity, and, you know, I took that quite seriously.
One of the other main themes of the Marine Corps is leadership by example, and I also took that seriously, but when I found myself in a situation where our platoon was being led by people who were not leading by example, in fact, they were taking liberty with their position of power and abusing it, I openly reported them for doing so.
I didn't do it anonymously, which I could have done.
I didn't think that would be honorable, so I openly did it, and I filed up, you know, I openly said what I had done, and my life turned around.
I went from being a model Marine with a high amount of responsibility for my short time in service to being the biggest scumbag in the entire battalion, and the guy who was in charge of me, Staff Sergeant Danley, he made it clear, I'll always remember the words he said.
He said to me, you know, you're the biggest piece of shit I've known in my 17 years in the Marine Corps, and I'm going to fry your ass first chance I get, and he took that seriously, and I had trouble from that point on, so it was that taste of injustice.
I realized, well, okay, the Marine Corps isn't exactly about honor and integrity, at least not in my experience, and it certainly isn't about leadership by example, so what else am I wrong about?
That was the key that opened the door that allowed me to see things from a different perspective, and I commenced a serious course of independent study, started to read from different sources like Howard Zinn and Noam Chomsky, and I read Malcolm X, and I read Bury My Heart, It Wounded Me, Black Like Me, a lot of books like that that just gave a completely different perspective on America, and I didn't come to hate America, but I came to, and I don't hate anyone, but I came to really a point of anger that I had been lied to so badly that I even joined the Marine Corps and put myself in a position to kill or be killed, but it was that injustice that really changed everything for me.
Well, and I read on your Wikipedia page that you've been concerned with the issue of depleted uranium, and perhaps, I guess here, if I'm reading between the lines correctly, various other causes of the First Gulf War illness.
Yeah, no, absolutely.
I mean, there's a couple important things to remember, and when I hear people talking about supporting their troops, I think to myself, all you're doing is regurgitating the propaganda lines that are being fed to you.
If you know anything about war, then you know you do not want to send your young ones, your finest, off to a war unless there's a damn good reason.
And sending them off to Iraq and Afghanistan based on lies for wars that aren't going to end any time in the near future, where countless American lives are going to be destroyed either in Afghanistan or Iraq, or after they come home, and never mind the victims in these lands that we're invading and occupying, this is not supporting your troops.
But let me just say to all the troops that might be listening, or the family members who have troops, I'll tell you how much your leaders in the military care about your troops.
What they did to us is not unique, and I'm doing it to the current day soldiers.
They gave us experimental drugs.
Those experimental drugs were allowed to be given to us because the Food and Drug Administration gave the U.S. military a waiver.
Under normal circumstances, in order to give experimental drugs to a human being, you have to actually consult with the human being, let them know that we don't know the long-term effects and that these are experimental drugs, and you have to get the consent of the human being themselves.
But the FDA said, no, that's okay, U.S. military, you go ahead and just administer those drugs.
So what the U.S. military did was they administered those drugs to us by lawful order, and those drugs, as it turned out, are directly linked to Gulf War syndrome, and many so-called heroes have died as a direct result of that.
Just to clarify, Kenneth, just to clarify, you're talking about the anthrax vaccine and or the anti-serine nerve gas pills that the soldiers were given?
Exactly.
Exactly.
The injections and the pills.
And the bottom line is that, you know, human experimentation is just not the kind of thing that anyone should be allowed to do.
And in this case, we know there are horrible consequences for many American Gulf War, First Gulf War veterans.
We're going to have to hold it right there as we go out to this break, Kenneth.
Stay on the line.
When we come back, we'll get back into the Gaza Peace Flotilla here and your role in the events of a few weeks ago.
Anti-War Radio, we'll be right back.
All right, y'all, welcome back to the show, it's Anti-War Radio.
I'm your host, Scott Worden.
We're in the middle of talking with Kenneth O'Keefe.
He's a former U.S. Marine.
He's renounced his American citizenship.
And he played a major role in the Gaza Peace Flotilla, the attempt to break the blockade of the Gaza Strip, which ended in disaster a few weeks back.
And now, Kenneth, Lord knows we've all heard the IDF side of the story.
Why don't you tell us a little bit about what you say happened there that day?
Well, having been in a combat situation before, I can tell you it was apparent it was a combat situation, except we didn't have combat weapons.
They came from the side of the ship first.
They climbed to the morning prayers about 3.40 in the morning.
They came with about maybe 10, 12 of the rigid-hulled assault boats.
They immediately started firing percussion grenades, smoke bombs, CS gas, and live rounds were being fired.
And confirmation of that came from me when I saw the first dead body, which was within five minutes, a man who got shot right square in the forehead, who I know was a photographer and father of two as well.
He was not holding any weapon.
And there were no commandos on the ship at that time.
So it was obvious right away.
And furthermore, they did not warn of the attack.
I know that from the captain.
Generally, if you're going to attack, you say at least, you know, you fired the shot across the bow, or you say, if you don't stop, we're going to do this.
They never did that.
They wanted the surprise.
And everything they did was indicative of a tactical creating of chaos in order to affect an advantage over your enemy.
And that's what they did.
Eventually, the helicopter came, maybe about after five, six, seven minutes.
The helicopter started having the commandos fast rope down.
I ended up being on the deck, one deck below where the commandos were coming down.
One of the commandos was pushed over the edge and fell down onto the deck that I was on.
And that was the first one that I came into contact with, where myself and another brother immediately descended upon him.
And I got the 9mm pistol off of him.
I actually didn't know what to do with the weapon.
I went around the ship, why I'm still alive, I don't know, maybe it's because I'm white and they knew not to kill white people, you know, otherwise, it's just sheer luck.
I was running around from one part of the boat to another, trying to figure out what to do with the weapon.
And eventually, I just decided to remove the bullet, which I then gave to somebody else.
And then I hid the weapon on the ship.
My hope was that it could be used as evidence.
Because you know, it was still hope that we would manage somehow to stave off this attack and keep going through.
You know, in that period of time, more bodies started piling up.
I saw five that night, personally, scores of injured people, blood was all over the place.
It was chaotic.
It was a combat situation.
I came into contact with another Israeli commando.
He had an assault rifle, a proper assault rifle.
We managed to get that weapon off of him.
The brother took that weapon, and he told me later he threw it into the sea.
We had control of three of their commandos, and this is the most important point of all.
Whatever they say about what weapons we used, and so on and so forth, the bottom line is, if we had any intention of killing, I can tell you that we had three Israeli commandos completely disarmed, totally at our mercy, surrounded by at least 100 men, some of whom who have lost family to Israeli soldiers in the past.
One man from Lebanon who lost his entire family, four children, and his wife in the 2006 invasion of Lebanon.
Imagine what some of these people are thinking, having the Israelis come on, attack us, kill more people, and they've already lost family members.
There were people who were very, very angry and upset, that's for sure, but the overwhelming majority will of everybody there was to keep cool, and ultimately to do what was right, and that was to let them go, and that's what we did.
But those commandos thought they were going to ...
They looked like little boys.
They looked like boys who were being terrorized by an abusive father.
They all looked to me like they knew they were going to die, for sure.
They looked at us like we were them, and since they were killing, they thought we were going to kill them, but we let them go.
So whatever the Israelis say about our intentions and terrorism, all this kind of stuff, they have accused me now, I think as you may be pointing out, they've accused me now specifically.
They've named me as a quote, involved in terrorist activity, and quote, heading to Gaza to train a commando unit for Hamas.
So, if I'm going to Gaza to train a commando unit for Hamas, and I've just disarmed an Israeli soldier who's attacking a ship, and I have his weapon in my hand, what do you think I would do if I was a real terrorist?
What do you think?
Do you think I'd let the Israeli soldier go, or maybe I'd want to do something else with him?
I mean, this is the kind of level of lies.
Just everything that's said, if it's advantageous to them and counter to our story, all of it is a lie, quite frankly.
Well, one of the most important lies here is that these weren't even really relief supply ships, that the Mavi Mamara was devoid of any supplies to help anybody.
Of course, you're nothing but a bunch of Hamas and Al-Qaeda mercenaries.
Yeah.
You know, it's a half-truth, is what it is.
We had cargo ships, and those cargo ships had cargo.
The passenger ship, the one that I was on, had passengers.
It also had small amounts of humanitarian cargo on board.
A lot of people brought things like toys, and footballs, and things like this.
There was some medical supplies.
The primary cargo ships are cargo ships.
That was a passenger ship.
If you don't consider it a form of humanitarian assistance to have people from outside your prison come and visit you and express their humanity, well, then it just goes to show that the Israeli government has lost its humanity anyway.
That was humanitarian in purpose, it's undeniable.
Whether or not we had large amounts of cargo is irrelevant.
Now, you actually succeeded in breaking the blockade back in July 2008, correct?
Well, I mean, we succeeded in getting through to Gaza.
Obviously, the blockade still continued, but what we did do is prove that we could reach Gaza by sea.
And yes, that was two small boats with 46 passengers.
All the way up to the departure of that mission back in 2008, the Israelis said we were nothing better than pirates, and that they would treat us as such.
They were not letting us through.
But I reckon, actually, the reason why we made it through, initially I thought it was really because we had enough exposure.
But the more I've come to think about it, the more I've come to realize that there's a very distinct possibility that the reason why we got through is that one of those boats was named the Liberty.
And you know what?
Far too many people, especially Americans, far too many Americans, know what happened with the USS Liberty.
Quickly, I'll summarize it.
1967 war, there was an attack on an American warship in the Mediterranean.
It was attacked for hours.
When they called for assistance from the 6th Fleet, they sent assistance, and it is on record from generals and admirals that President Lyndon Johnson called back the assistance and told them point blank he wanted the ship to go to the bottom.
What was meant to happen was, and this was inevitably, it's all absolutely, verifiably, 100% documented, it was Israeli jets and attack boats, unmarked.
What they were doing was attacking a U.S. ship.
It was supposed to be sunk, everyone was supposed to be killed, and it was supposed to be blamed on Egypt, and that was going to bring America into the 1967 war so that it could establish permanent military bases and further the New World Order agenda.
But it didn't work.
And the survivors of the Liberty had been threatened.
So when we named one of our boats the Liberty, I think the Israelis had to think long and hard about whether or not they wanted to stop the Liberty, or worse yet, attack it.
Because if that truth ever becomes known, I imagine that the whole game of the U.S. government, this corrupt, pathetic, servile government, being allowed to continue its unadulterated support of Israel crimes, part and parcel with the arresting of all the children of Gaza and so on and so forth, that will end.
It will end if Americans find out about the USS Liberty.
Yeah, well, you know, that might be a good tactic to keep naming ships the Liberty when you go to Gaza.
And it reminds me of what, I guess, about a year and a half ago, Admiral Mullen actually, or was it Dennis Blair, but I think it was Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told the Israelis, we're not going to have another Liberty incident here in regards to a possible war with Iran.
So this is on the minds of more people than just you and me, Kenneth.
So now here's the thing, too, and we are running short on time, unfortunately, but I wondered if you could address, I guess, to cut right to the chase, Max Blumenthal had a friend of his, I don't know if he did it or a friend of his, did some translations from the Hebrew press in Israel from the week before the attack on the Mavi Mamar, et cetera, and they said in there that this was exactly what they were going to do, which would seem to me to contradict the idea that they were helpless against y'all's brutality and they just came to shoot paintballs at you and so forth.
Are you aware of that?
Well, no.
They said also, A.V.
Barak said that they would stop us, quote, at any price.
And it was said on international television, popularly.
And it was said also, A.V.
Barak said that they would stop us, quote, at any price.
And it was said on international television, time and time again by the leader of IAEA and other representatives, that we would defend that ship with our bodies.
So it was made ever clear, and you'd have to be foolish, I mean, not to know that the Turkish people, several hundred of them, on a ship with a righteous cause, intending to help out the people of Palestine, were going to sit down, were going to lie down.
I mean, you know, it was totally predictable what was going to happen.
And there would always have been loss of life if Israel did what it did, and it made that decision consciously.
This is the fundamental question that we always come down to.
If we believe Israel, then we just have to believe they're a bunch of blundering idiots.
I don't believe that, you know?
I don't believe that you're a bunch of idiots.
You knew damn well what would happen, and you planned it.
Well, yeah, and they announced it beforehand.
Now tell me about this IHH, because in all the war party media, which includes everything on TV, tied to Hamas, tied to Hezbollah, tied to terrorism, I really don't know anything about it.
But can you tell me your take on this IHH?
Yeah, well, I've seen some of the evidence, like a French magistrate, you know, said some things, and I've looked at it, it's been dissected, it's complete, it's just ridiculous, it has no merit at all.
Is this built by association, or is there even association, or what?
If you give real assistance to the Palestinians, you're branded a terrorist.
Like me, you know, I have met with so-called terrorists directly, I've never disputed that, I've always acknowledged it, I have nothing to hide.
If you are working in a capacity of delivering aid to Gaza, then you have a relationship with people there that are absolutely considered by Israel to be terrorists.
So you now, yes, built by association, are a terrorist.
If there's any evidence, some actual evidence, that people within IHH intend to actually carry out a terrorist act, or assist in the carrying out of a terrorist act, then where's the evidence?
I'm a huge believer in due process of law.
Either put up the evidence, or shut up, you know?
And that's the bottom line.
There's no evidence out there, otherwise IHH would be getting done for terrorism charges.
But there's no evidence.
Alright, now, we're already over time, but luckily we can still record, and half our audience can still hear us on one of the networks that we're on here, so tell me about the future very quickly.
Do you plan to go back?
Yes, absolutely, I do.
And what I'm really wanting people to realize is that we have the power to achieve whatever we want.
If we want a better world, we can do it.
If we want to end the blockade, we can do that.
It's up to us, it's not up to anyone else.
We must remember that before we went out into action, before we did this, there was no talk about ending the blockade, easing the blockade, EU, United Nations, none of them were doing anything.
All collaborating, complicit in this horrendous policy, only because we did what we did.
Do we see the change that we see?
And if we do it better, we're going to end it all together.
Yeah, right on three chairs, you know, I was just reading this book, Invisible War, about the exact situation, writ large, with Bill Clinton's strangulation of Iraq in the 1990s.
And that's exactly the same thing.
It was pressure by people just like you, Kenneth, who got the oil for food program even started at all, as far short as it fell.
Lives were saved because people like you said, enough.
Yeah, I mean, you know, I'm really longing for the day where it doesn't take everyone.
You know, a lot of people will then hide behind the fact that, you know, most people are watching American Idol, or they're doing this funny.
The masses will always follow, and they're following those people that are manipulating them, quite frankly.
The masses will come when the conscientious minority, in significant numbers, but relatively small numbers, act in an intelligent and united way.
We can achieve so many things, we can make a better world, and as a father, I call on all parents, if you really care about your children and their future, then you must engage in one way or another.
You don't have to go on a ship, you know, I'm not asking people to be like me, be like you, and exercise your conscience, and figure out how you fit in to that world, because we all have something to offer.
Alright everybody, that is Kenneth O'Keefe, world citizen.
Thanks very much for your time on the show today, appreciate it a lot.
Thank you brother, thank you.