06/21/10 – Jason Ditz – The Scott Horton Show

Alright y'all, welcome back to the show, it's Anti-War Radio on the Liberty Radio Network, LRN.
FM, streaming live around the planet Earth.
And our first guest on the show today is Jason Ditz, he's the news editor at AntiWar.com, he writes up all those great news summaries for us and tracks down the news from papers all over the world.
Welcome back to the show Jason, how are you?
I'm good Scott, thanks for having me.
I should have said that the other way around, you track down the stories from all over the world and then you write them up in these great news summaries with the links to all the original sources, pointing out all the important parts of each article, etc.
That would be, you know, proper chronological order of things there.
Alright, so let's talk about Israel and Palestine.
Let's just go through, I guess, in order of importance, some of the headlines, new developments in the story of the Gaza blockade and the attempted peace flotillas, etc. since we last spoke.
Sure, well, the big news, I guess, is that Israel is about to release a new list of banned goods for the Gaza Strip, which technically is, they called it a list of banned goods, but really it's the other way around.
It's a list of allowed goods, because anything that's not on the list is banned.
But they called it a significant liberalization of the old list, where they're going to start allowing things like pasta and spreadable margarine and things like that into the Gaza Strip, which for years they haven't allowed.
But exactly how far it's going to go isn't very clear, because they're still talking about tightening the blockade and banning dual-use goods, which of course they've argued everything from t-shirts to pairs of shoes count as dual-use goods, because those could be used as part of a military uniform.
So whether they're actually going to allow anything like cement in, which is the thing that is most needed in the Gaza Strip, really isn't clear.
Well, now, so let me ask you this.
There was a story that you wrote up, geez, I guess, what, last Friday?
Or maybe it was Saturday, that said that the Netanyahu government had put out a statement in English saying, oh, we're going to loosen up the blockade a little bit and let some more stuff in.
At the same time, they put out a story in Hebrew saying, yeah, right, well, we're talking about maybe we'll begin to sit down and consider whether we'll ever do such a thing or something.
And then I think the common interpretation in America, yours, and I know Fairness and Accuracy and Reporting and a couple other places who even noticed, interpreted that to mean they tell us that things are going to get loosened up, but they're telling the truth to the people of Israel that they're not.
And I wonder if the changes in this are enough to maybe make you reconsider that interpretation, that perhaps they were BS'ing the people of Israel and saying, no, we'll never back down.
In fact, they're backing down just a little bit.
Or whether you think this is simply part of the same spin of what they told us when really they were being honest with the people of Israel and saying nothing's really going to change here.
Well, I think very little is going to change.
The Thursday press releases that they released were after the Thursday Cabinet meeting.
The English version made it sound like it's a done deal, there are going to be all these sweeping changes, and the Hebrew version said, well, there was sort of a general sense that we're going to make some minor changes, but there wasn't any vote and there's nothing binding yet.
Now, Sunday they actually did have a vote that is going to make some sort of changes, but exactly what changes, we're still not sure.
But the big change from Thursday's meeting to Sunday's meeting is that they've actually voted on it now, and whatever changes they're going to make, they've agreed to make.
All right, well, you know, what do you know about Gaza?
I mean, I don't guess you've ever been there, but I know you follow this news very closely, and it wasn't long ago that former President Jimmy Carter said that the people there are living like animals.
Gaza is sort of an odd combination, because the smuggling tunnels have been amazingly effective.
I mean, there's talk of it being used for weapons, but it's really not used just for weapons.
They smuggle in everything through those tunnels to Egypt.
I mean, they smuggle iPods in, they smuggle all sorts of banned food and toys and things in, and they smuggle in things like animals, cars.
It's amazing, but the thing is, the cost of doing business with those smugglers is so high that the vast, vast majority of the Gazans sense, of course, there really is no economy there, because there's not really any way of legally exporting any goods or anything.
The vast majority of people can't participate in that economy at all.
Well, it's true what Israel says, that there's not a crisis going on in the sense that there aren't goods available.
The smuggled in goods are so expensive that they're basically out of reach of the average Gazan.
Well, yeah, you know, I've actually seen a couple of stories about how the business community in Gaza is basically ruined, and that since virtually all trade is black market trade inside that prison that is the Gaza Strip, that all it means is that Hamas and the worst criminals end up consolidating more and more power.
Well, right, and there was a fascinating article a few months back about, well, I guess it would have been more like a year back now, because it was a few months after the Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip, about the economy of the smugglers, and how there was something of a speculative bubble going on among people that were investing in those smuggling tunnels, and how some of the tunnels got destroyed in the Israeli invasion, and Hamas was trying to, so to speak, bail out smugglers.
Yeah, well, interesting thing, I mean, it's simple economics, right?
Same thing as you outlaw alcohol, you turn the business over to Al Capone, you outlaw you know, pot, and meth, and cocaine, and you turn it over to the Mexican mafia, and whatever, whatever, same difference.
Right, and it's really amazing how much actually gets into Gaza for the place being under virtual lockdown for years and years.
I mean, there really have been cases where they've chopped up cars into a few pieces, and had people drag them through the tunnel, and reassemble them when they get to the Gaza Strip, but the cost of doing it this way makes it just so expensive, that unless you're, like you say, one of the worst criminals, or a member of the Hamas government, you'd never be able to afford any of this stuff.
Yep, well, and for the record, we've talked about this on the show, we shouldn't spend too much time on it, because it's, you know, old news now, everyone should know that when they hear the excuses that, well, we gotta try to keep weapons out, it's all about trying to keep weapons out of the hands of Hamas.
Hamas is the elected government of the Gaza Strip, and so they can have weapons.
And also, it's clear that the Israeli government has said time and again, even Chuck Schumer, our own American senator, said, the purpose is behavior modification of the people of Gaza, the majority of whom are under 18.
It is not about security.
Alright, kiddos, welcome back to the show, it's Antiwar Radio on the Liberty Radio Network, LRN.
FM, and we're talking with Jason Ditz, Managing News Editor at Antiwar.com.
Now, Jason, let's talk about this international investigation.
I think I remember a headline that said that Obama says there should be an international investigation of the Israeli raid on the Gaza peace flotilla.
Whatever happened to that?
Well, he was saying that at the time when that was sort of the pro-Israel stance, that we should withhold judgment and wait for the international investigation.
But about a week into the aftermath of the attack on the Mavi Marmara, Israel made it clear that they didn't want the international investigation either, and the administration basically dropped it right there.
So, there are still some people in the international community calling for a turkey in particular, saying that there has to be some sort of international investigation into this, but it's not clear at all that it's ever going to happen.
You know, did you read that piece we ran on Antiwar.com a few weeks back, well, a couple weeks back, I think it was by Anand Gopal and Tom Englehart about how Obama has just backed down on everything that he's tried to do everywhere in the whole world.
Did you read that one?
Yeah.
It's really amazing, isn't it?
It's like, I don't know, I hope this is okay for, you know, live commercial format radio, but it seems like Barack Obama just has a sign hanging around his neck that says, Big Bitch.
And everybody's just supposed to poke their finger in his eye and do whatever they want.
And like, you know, I don't think there should be an empire anyway, so I don't care.
But when they go through that article where, well, he backed down on Honduras, he backed down on the settlements, he backed down on Hamid Karzai, he backed down on bases in Iraq, he backed down on this, he backed down on that, he went over there and he shook his finger in the face of the Chinese, and then he backed down on that.
And boy, this guy is the lusorist imperialist to run this country since George W. Bush.
Right.
He wants to make a stand, but so long as it's a popular stand and it doesn't require any sort of argument and the minute that anybody who's a perceived ally disagrees with him, he pretty much knuckles under immediately.
Yeah, I mean, you look at the Karzai example where, oh, this guy's a drug dealer and we're going to have a big fake election and we're going to install Abdullah Abdullah in charge and all that.
And then Karzai just stole the election right back.
And then Obama went, oh, you know what?
We like you and your heroin dealing brother.
And well, yeah, in fact, here, let us wine and dine in and bring you to the White House and give you the red carpet and say sorry for all those things that we said about trying to marginalize you and replace you.
Right.
And our puppet dictator of Afghanistan has got, you know, they talk about three dimensional chess and all this.
You know, he's doing nothing but whoop Obama.
Right.
And in April, of course, they had their public falling out where.
Cars, I threatened to join the Taliban and the administration, you know, not Obama himself so much as Robert Gibbs and some people in the State Department sort of publicly chastised cars for it.
And Gibbs wouldn't say if cars I was even considered an ally anymore.
But, of course, as soon as cars, I visited the U.S. and talked to Obama.
Obama was chiding the media for making too much of this argument and saying that they have a good relationship.
So Obama came into office, he gave a Cairo speech all about Israel.
He gave a speech directly to the people of Iran saying that, you know, all due respect, let's work out our issues, et cetera.
And yet where does that stand a year and a half later?
The settlements in the West Bank, the blockade of Gaza, progress toward two states, progress towards nuclear negotiations with the Iranians.
None of it's really gotten anywhere, of course.
With Israel, every once in a while he'll make statements like he's really going to hold Israel accountable as far as settlements go or demolishing Palestinian homes in East Jerusalem.
But as soon as he makes a speech like clockwork, somebody in Congress will complain about it and he'll immediately back down and not say another word about it.
So why he keeps starting this battle that he knows he has no intention of finishing, I don't even know.
Well, you know, when the Brazilians and the Turks worked out the nuclear deal and got the well, I guess you reported late last week anyway, that the Turks and the Iranians are still saying that this is still doable.
We want to do this, even with the sanctions recently passed by the U.N., et cetera.
But it sort of seemed to me like at least I could speculate and imagine Benjamin Netanyahu and his cabinet saying, all right, so how do we undermine the Turks?
Not that the Americans were going along with the Turkish deal anyway.
So I don't know if this is really necessary.
But it sure seemed like if they wanted to marginalize the Turks position as compared to the United States, then what better way to do it than go too far, raiding the flotilla, the peace flotilla, on their way to break the Gaza blockade and kill a bunch of Turks and anger the Turkish government.
And then, of course, America is going to side with Israel against our 60 year NATO ally Turkey.
And so now they're in a much weaker position to try to force this issue with the nuclear deal.
You know, I don't know.
I guess that's just speculation.
I don't know of any actual journalism along those lines.
Do you?
No, no, that seems like it would be an awfully risky game to play, because Turkey is really starting to come to a crossroads here.
I mean, they've been rebuffed by the European Union several times.
Their alliance with Israel is just in tatters now.
The U.S. is starting to...the Obama administration angrily condemns them for trying to work out a nuclear deal with Iran that the U.S. itself had been claiming to want for months.
And it's really a dangerous game to be playing with a country like Turkey that's still so strategically important.
Well, yeah.
And, you know, as you say, Israel's closest ally, at least was Israel's closest ally in the Middle East.
And it's also an important supply line for the Iraq War, which is still going on.
Yeah, well, very important point.
And, of course, you know, there's the broader question of Turkey as kind of the bridge between the East and West and kind of part, you know, pseudo-European country, but, you know, Muslim country at the same time, but not Arab and all those things that make Turkey such an important country for America's strategy in the region.
All right.
Tell me about Lebanon.
You have a headline here, Lebanon to bar aid ships from entering Gaza.
What's that about?
Well, now they're starting to, it looks like, back down from that.
I believe it was the transportation minister was saying that the aid ships that have been planning to sail from Lebanon to the Gaza Strip aren't allowed to go there because Israel is considered an enemy nation and they consider the ports in Gaza to be Israel-controlled ports.
So they're arguing that sending aid to Gaza, even though it's against Israel's wishes, would be illegal because it would involve going to an Israeli port.
But now the officials are saying, basically, that they're allowing the aid ships to leave Lebanon and go to Cyprus.
And once they're in Cyprus, it's basically up to them where they'll go.
So they're sort of, you know, still saying that it's against the law to go straight from Lebanon to Gaza, but they're not really going to do anything about it if they stop off in Cyprus first.
Now, all these rumors about Turkish or Iranian warships accompanying the flotilla, these are just rumors, possibly even spread by the Israelis.
Is that right?
Well, Turkey has hinted at it, certainly, and Turkey's prime minister has even suggested going with the aid ships themselves.
Is there any evidence that the Iranians are sending any navy ships?
No, no, not at all.
Because people keep saying that, especially in the British press.
All right, we're out of time.
Thanks, Jason.
Oh, thank you.
All right, y'all, we'll be back.
Anti-War Radio, LRN.fm.