11/17/15 – Dan Sanchez – The Scott Horton Show

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All right, you guys, welcome back to the show.
I'm Scott Horton, and it's my show, The Scott Horton Show.
Anyway, I got Dan on the telephone here.
Dan Sanchez from Mises Academy at the Mises Institute there in Auburn, Alabama, and regular writer for Antiwar.com and also Anti-Media, which I guess is Anti-Media.com, right?
Dan, welcome back.
Hi, great.
Yeah, Anti-Media.org, I believe.
.org, okay.
TheAntiMedia.org.
TheAntiMedia.org.
Okay, good deal.
All right, now, so a brand new piece at Antiwar.com, stop helping ISIS in its war on the gray zone, and then, even though it's the prequels, it is Star Wars, so you're kind of winning me over with your JPEG here, kid.
You got my main man, Obi-Wan Kenobi, the guy who knows right from wrong better than anybody, I think, trying to explain it to Anakin who's going wrong, so explain it to me, Dan.
What the hell's going on here?
Well, the great dialogue there is Anakin says, if you're not with me, then you're my enemy, and then Obi-Wan answers, only assist deals in absolutes, and that is often thought to be inspired by George W. Bush, when after 9-11, he said that if you're not with us, then you're with the terrorists, but actually, it was also seconded by none other than Osama bin Laden, that he said, the world today is divided into two camps.
Bush spoke the truth when he said, either you are with or you are with the terrorists, meaning either you are with the crusade or you are with Islam, and by Islam, he means the extremist Islam that he represents, that the Salafists like him consider non-extremists to be apostates and not true Muslims.
Oh, there you go, yeah, how convenient for them.
So, now, you know, we could trace this back, if you wanted, we could go back to 1993 and the beginning of Islamic Jihad's war, you know, basically Al-Qaeda's war against the United States then, but we all have seen the results ever, really through the 90s, and especially since September 11th, but now, you're trying to say you're trying to say in this article that this is what the Islamic State is doing right now with this Paris attack?
That's right, because that Osama bin Laden quote was cited by an official ISIS publication called Dabiq, where they were saying that that development that bin Laden was addressing was a great development, and it's what they wanted.
They called it the extinction of the gray zone, and so by the gray zone, they mean the gray area between, on one hand, what they call the crusader camp and the camp of Islam, and so what they want is there to be no gray zone in between the two camps, that both camps to be warring against each other, and so they want both moderate Muslims to be driven towards the extremists, and so, and quote-unquote fake Muslims to be exposed as tools of the crusaders, and so they don't want anyone trying to make peace, anyone trying to coexist.
They want the world to be just divided into just two warring camps, and so what Juan Cole, an academic and journalist, believed what he wrote after the Charlie Hebdo attacks back in January, he wrote that the strategy of these extremist groups is to, what he called, sharpen the contradictions, and so he likened it to a strategy of the communists, of certain communists, where they would do terrorist attacks in Europe, in Austria, in the early 20th century, in order to provoke police crackdowns on moderate leftists, and that was intended to drive those moderate leftists into revolutionary communism, and so Juan Cole believes that that's what groups like ISIS and Al-Qaeda are trying to do, especially in France, because there is a large Muslim population in France, but they're not very political, especially not very politically Islamic.
A lot of them are just very secular, and so the problem they're faced with is how to drive them into being radicalized, and so the strategy is to provoke a crackdown on Muslims in general, and then that will radicalize them.
So, like you always say, the action is in the reaction, that the terrorist attack itself is only phase one of the attack.
Phase two is to elicit the police crackdown or the bombing, the war crackdown on Syria and Iraq and other Muslim countries, in order to radicalize Muslims and drive them into the extremist camp.
All right.
Hanging tight right there.
It's Dan Sanchez from the Mises Academy and antiwar.com.
Stop helping ISIS in its war on the gray zone, he says, at antiwar.com today.
We'll be right back.
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All right, y'all, welcome back to the show.
I'm Scott Horton.
On the line, I've got Dan Sanchez from Mises Institute and antiwar.com.
And yeah, the action and the reaction, Dan, I learned that from Will Gregg right after September 11th.
He said, let's look at what the commies say about terrorism.
And what's the point?
How does a weak actor, why does a weak group use terrorism against a strong group?
What is the point?
Just I hate you and I'm throwing a temper tantrum?
Or, I mean, obviously you're not winning a battlefield victory against an army division by setting off a bomb that kills civilians somewhere or whatever.
So what is the damn point?
And of course, the damn point is to get the victims to act when they're still mad and therefore dumb and hurt themselves.
And all you got to do is just take one deep breath and stop and think about it for a minute.
And the answer immediately should be not the George Bushian answer.
Great.
Let's see how many different ways and to what extent we can exploit this.
But how can we be smart and deny the terrorists the victory that they really seek, which is the reaction they want?
You know, Robert Pape said on the show yesterday, they actually did deny Al-Qaeda the victory they wanted originally by not putting tens of thousands of troops on the ground in Afghanistan.
Oh, but then they went and did ten times worse in Iraq.
And so ended up, you know, doing and then, of course, surging into Afghanistan and staying for 14 years of waging a whole separate war, just like they did one after all.
But originally they went light and fast and all that just in a way to deny the terrorists what they wanted, at least in effect, maybe just because it took the military too long to get their ass in gear.
And so they did it CIA style instead of first.
But anyway, point being, this is what they're trying to do is get the big, dumb American empire to destroy itself.
And this is what the big, dumb American empire keeps doing.
Oh, and as you're saying, trying to radicalize the people of the West against the Muslims who live in the West and try to make us believe that they are the alien enemies among us when, in fact, they're no such thing.
That's right.
And it's working.
That's the terrible thing is that as recent as the attacks were, you already, the Paris attacks were, you already see signs of, Juan Cole called it, you know, being beastly to Muslims.
I mean, that's what the foreign policy of the West has been, being beastly to Muslims since the Afghan war.
But it's also happening domestically that there's signs of rising Islamophobia in both Europe and America following the attacks and signs of crackdowns.
They've already done a whole bunch of arrests and raids of suspects.
And they're talking about dissolving mosques and even talking about interning what they call potential jihadists, the internment of potential jihadists.
And how do you even, you know, determine that?
How can you read someone's mind?
It's all just a bunch of pre-crime.
And what that's going to do is just end up with the persecution of Muslims just for being Muslims.
And that's just a recipe for radicalization.
And again, it's exactly what the terrorists want.
And you see, in America, it seems even worse because you have a lot of really ignorant people who have never met a Muslim in their lives.
So their imagination can kind of run wild.
And it's like a genocidal sentiment.
I mean, you'll hear people on social media talking about just nuking them all, just wiping out all the Muslims as if they were just one undifferentiated camp, which is exactly what that whole eliminating the gray zone strategy is supposed to incite.
And just thinking of just Islam as the enemy, never mind that it's a religion of a billion people, that only a tiny, tiny minority is violent at all.
And that it's Muslims that are feeding these extremists, that it's Muslims that are in Syria and Iraq that are trying to actually eliminate these extremists.
But that just doesn't compute for them.
Well, and of course, as long as especially American cops believe the propaganda that it's Islam that makes them hate us, and that the clue to who is a threat and a terrorist is who's the most devout in their faith, you couldn't possibly hope for a more Bin Ladenite friendly script there for the Americans to get caught up in.
And of course, the alternative is admitting that this is because the Americans started it and that it's all about politics and war and real graveyards, and politics, power going on here.
And they can't ever admit that.
So as they're going to keep blaming Islam, and then so assuming the fake premise, what's an American cop supposed to do except monitor those who seem to really make sure to pray five times a day?
I mean, that guy, he must be a real terrorist nut, or whatever.
And that's the completely warped lens that they're looking at it through.
And in fact, you see like what just happened in in France, I'm sure I assume anyway, they have the same problem as us.
Their cops are busy spying on everyone, instead of the guy who said he's going to do this.
They're not watching him, you know?
Right, right.
And that's another big development following the attack is that you can see just in the mass in the mainstream media, just this concerted push of trying to push for encryption, for banning encryption, right?
And so they're trying to make the case that Snowden has blood on his hands, that the reason why this attack was able to go through was because, you know, the intelligence agencies don't have the tools necessary.
And so what they try to say is that, that it's because of encryption, because of Snowden reviewing the tools that agencies have, that it made the terrorists like go underground and avoid calls that could be tapped and messages that could be intercepted.
When that's ridiculous, as Glenn Greenwald points out, that terrorists have known from way before Snowden did the leak, that the government was able to listen in on their calls and to intercept their messages.
And so way before the leaks, they've been aware of that.
Someone made a joke that even the drug dealers on the wire knew, you know, not to use a cell phone.
And so it has nothing to do with that.
But what the mainstream media is just uncritically just publishing these anonymous leaks from American officials saying that the Snowden revelations had a negative impact without any proof, without any evidence.
And the mainstream media just regurgitates that without even questioning.
Come on, Dan, your freedom has been motivating and aiding and abetting these terrorists all along.
When are you going to stop?
Right, right.
And like you say that, like what Snowden said in one of his interviews, is that, you know, that mass surveillance is making it harder for them to prevent attacks like this because they're so focused on getting the whole haystack, they call it, and just, you know, mass monitoring everyone that the resources devoted to that cannot be devoted to actual, you know, detective work and actual, you know, tracking actual threats.
Right.
And the actual threats are just getting lost in the cacophony of data that they have.
Yeah.
And just like the FBI, you know, you could have guessed, I had guessed and said in more general terms, but then it turned out that literally the Boston FBI was in the middle of entrapping some dumbass while the marathon plot was being put together right under their noses.
You know, this is these are the people we put in charge of keeping us safe and of determining who the enemy is.
And so, listen, here's the thing about it, everybody.
I'm sorry.
I'm very clumsy and doing a bad job today.
But Dan has done a great job in this article.
I hope you'll go and look at it.
It's called Stop Helping ISIS in its war on the gray zone.
And it's about how America's hawks are doing our enemies dirty work for them.
And I might add that I think this audience will all agree with now's a good time to embrace Muslims in your community and let them know that you value religious freedom and their, you know, lives and freedom as well and whatever.
And not let the hawks on either side take advantage of us civilized people in the middle.
So thanks again, Dan.
Really appreciate your time on the show, dude.
You're welcome.
Great to be on.
Thank you.
All right, y'all.
That is the great Dan Sanchez.
He is at the Mises Institute and Antiwar.com.
How do you like that?
This one is called Stop Helping ISIS in its war on the gray zone.
We'll be right back in a sec.
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