Chase Strangio, an ACLU staff attorney representing whistleblower Chelsea Manning, discusses why Manning is facing indefinite solitary confinement during her 35 year sentence in a military prison for such infractions as using expired toothpaste and possessing magazines.
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All right, y'all.
Welcome back to the show.
I'm Scott Horton.
It's my show, The Scott Horton Show.
If you look at antiwar.com slash blog right now, there's one by Jason Ditz, Chelsea Manning faces indefinite solitary confinement for expired toothpaste?
Joining me on the line is Chase Strangio of the ACLU, representing Chelsea Manning, I believe, on the, he's got a few different lawyers, but you're working on the gender dysmorphia part of the appeal there, right?
Yes.
The ACLU represents Chelsea in her challenge to the denial of transition-related health care.
So we're suing the Department of Defense and the various officials who are denying her care.
Okay.
Well, thank you very much for joining us on the show here today.
I read this thing, and it's, I guess, shocking, but not surprising, but maybe even a little bit surprising.
Can you please give us a rundown of what all Chelsea is in trouble for here?
So I just, you know, to begin, we haven't seen actual charging documents.
Those were read from Chelsea to her supporters at Fitzgibbon Media.
I have seen some of the investigation documents, and what's clear is that it is as ridiculous as it sounds.
It, you know, at one point there was an alleged altercation in which food was put on or near an officer during mealtime.
From that, she was written up for disrespect, for not responding to the officer's questions, and instead asking for an attorney when it was clear that she was under investigation.
From there, her cell was searched, and the expired toothpaste and the trans-related publications, as well as the Senate Intelligence Committee torture report, were written up as contraband.
And that is where the investigation sounds, and it sounds like they're moving forward with formal charges against her, and that they could be serious charges that could potentially result in her being placed in solitary confinement.
So that's the status of things at this point, but there's definitely reason to be concerned, and this is the type of thing that happens to people in prison, and it is particularly ridiculous in this case.
Man, so, well, and it especially gets me, of course, and I think should get everybody, because this is someone who's in prison for being a hero, not for committing a crime or hurting someone.
I mean, not that even people who are convicted of murder deserve to have their most basic human rights violated beyond being locked up, but still, I mean, this is an entirely different situation.
But anyway, so, but now the charges, I'm sorry, could you, as best to your knowledge, as best you can, can you explain the thing about the food again?
Put food near an officer?
This is the charge of attempted disrespect, is that right?
Well, you know, the facts that surround the initial confrontation have to do with allegedly throwing food on the ground or putting food on the ground, which led to a confrontation, an alleged confrontation, in which she was, you know, questioned by an officer.
During the confrontation, the officer allegedly started accusing her of throwing things at him.
At that point, Chelsea said, I would like to speak with a lawyer, and then that was, it sounds like, to my knowledge, the basis of the disrespect charge, which is a serious offense in military prison.
Again, these aren't criminal charges, these are military disciplinary charges, but, yeah, so that was the facts that form the basis of that charge, and then there were additional charges related to a subsequent search of her cell after that alleged incident.
And now the magazines and the Senate torture report, how could that stuff even get to Chelsea Manning if not through their approval, approved channels, that kind of thing?
They don't deliver sealed brown packages to their prisoners, do they?
Yeah, there's no way that any of this, any of the materials that were confiscated did not at some point go through the military security process to get to her, so they were at one point approved for her to have in her possession.
Now, it is possible that they're claiming that they were somehow tampered with.
I think they're, you know, Chelsea indicated that there was an allegation that she didn't properly write her name in them.
Of course, there were other things in her cell that were in the exact same condition that were not confiscated.
So there is a question about, well, why were those the materials that were taken, and what is the basis for that?
So I think there's a lot to learn from this situation still, and the facts are still really developing, but what is clear is that, you know, Chelsea's being subjected to the type of horrible treatment that we see in prisons and jails across the country, and unfortunately I think she's particularly vulnerable to being targeted because she has such an important public voice, because she's an advocate for media access for prisoners.
She's an advocate for government transparency, and she's an advocate for transgender rights, all of which are things that people are invested in not having her speak about.
And so it's something to pay attention to.
Right.
Yeah, it sounds like they're really just trumping up whatever they can here.
And by the way, this shouldn't go without saying, because people might not be familiar, but Chelsea, of course, was held in solitary confinement in Kuwait and at Quantico for months and months on end, maybe longer than that, in a way that has been described by human rights experts as torture, and along with humiliation by being made to stand naked in front of people and do jumping jacks, whatever crap I forget they made her do.
So this has been something that is ongoing with the abuse of Chelsea Manning, although yeah, now that she's convicted, this is, you know, just policy, right?
They can lock her in solitary indefinitely.
Is that right?
That's correct.
So for, you know, the majority of prison disciplinary infractions, to my knowledge, you could have a maximum punishment of involuntary solitary confinement, which, of course, is concerning because there's so much power put into the hands of the decision makers.
And it's, you know, it's definitely important to sort of keep a public eye on what's going on because, you know, the officers can make a prisoner's life hell, and we really don't want that to happen to Chelsea, and we have to be especially vigilant.
Yeah.
Well, I think maybe, if anything, they're sort of doing us a favor here by tacking on the expired toothpaste charge, because that just makes for an intriguing headline for people that, wait, who's this Manning again?
Oh, yeah, the one that leaked all that stuff and just, you know, bring things back up, and it just, it's unfair on its face.
Expired toothpaste?
Is that really against the rules, even?
Or they're just pretending it is?
Well, they're using the expired toothpaste to charge her with misuse of medication, which I myself can't say that I quite understand how that's possible.
But that is the charge.
She possessed the expired toothpaste, it expired in April of 2015, not even that expired.
And, you know, who knew that toothpaste even expired?
And it is definitely the basis for a very confusing charge of medicine, misuse of medication.
So, something to be concerned about as well.
Yeah.
All right, now, so is David Coombs still Chelsea's attorney when it comes to the criminal appeals process and all that?
No, David Coombs is representing Chelsea along with ACLU in her challenge to her conditions of confinement related to health care.
Nancy Hollander and Vince Ward are representing Chelsea on her, on her appeal of her court martial conviction.
Okay.
I got it.
Well, at least, you know, these are good hands that her legal case is in.
I know that the burden is on the good guys now.
Not that it ever wasn't, really, but now officially the burden is on the good guys to get her out of there.
But it's just absolutely intolerable to think that Chelsea Manning's got to do 35 years in the brig for the heroic act of leaking the Iraq and Afghan war logs in the State Department cables.
It's absolutely outrageous, and especially after all the abuse and mistreatment before the trial was ever eventually even held.
She should have been set free at that point.
You know, and I represent her in a limited capacity, but I certainly agree that we should not be punishing whistleblowers in the way that we have punished Chelsea Manning, and I hope that, you know, the external vigilance from her supporters and people who are like-minded will make sure that she gets out before 35 years and make sure that she's not subjected to unduly punitive conditions while she's incarcerated.
And by the way, this is important, too.
Can you tell me a little bit, real quickly here, about your part of the case and their discrimination against her transgender this and that?
Yeah, so just very quickly, we sued the Department of Defense for violating her rights under the Eighth Amendment of the United States Constitution, and we are alleging that she has a serious medical condition, which is gender dysphoria, and needs to be provided with certain treatment.
We were successful in getting her hormone therapy.
They're still forcing her to shave her head, and so that we're arguing that she be provided with the ability to grow her hair, consistent with the female grooming standards.
All right, well, thanks very much for your time.
I sure appreciate it, Chase.
Very much.
All right.
Thanks so much.
Bye-bye.
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