08/10/15 – Brad Hoff – The Scott Horton Show

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All right, guys, welcome back.
I'm Scott Horton.
It's my show, The Scott Horton Show.
I like this song, too, man, but we got to get back to the interviews here.
Yeah, I went overtime with David Bromwich.
I wish I'd had a whole hour with him, man.
There's so much more to discuss there, but check out his article.
It's the spotlight today on Antiwar.com.
Next is Brad Hoff.
He was the spotlight on Antiwar.com last Friday with his piece about the war in Syria.
Former DIA chief warned White House of ISIS rise.
The website is LevantReport.com.
Welcome back to the show, Brad.
How are you doing?
Thanks so much for having me back, Scott.
Very happy to have you here.
So here's the deal.
You broke the story.
I'm just going to catch everybody up here real quick.
You broke the story about the Judicial Watch FOIA suit that resulted in the revelation of this DIA memo from August of 2012 explaining how America's allies in the war in Syria were helping back a bunch of al-Qaeda suicide bomber kooks and that they looked like they wanted to carve out an Islamic state in eastern Syria and that there was a danger that it could spread into western Iraq.
And it didn't get that much coverage except in alternative type media.
But anyway, so here a guy named Mehdi Hassan has gotten an interview with Michael Flynn, the former head of the DIA, who was head of the DIA at that time.
And this Al Jazeera reporter, Mehdi Hassan, confronted Michael Flynn about this memo.
And I have here that clip.
It's slightly edited, but not for deception, just for time.
And I'll explain further when we get back from this clip.
It's about two and a half minutes long, Brad.
I'll thank you for your patience.
But the audience needs to hear this.
And a secret analysis by the agency you ran, the Defense Intelligence Agency, in August 2012 said, and I quote, there is the possibility of establishing a declared or undeclared Salafist — it's not secret anymore, it was released under FOI — the quote is there is the possibility of establishing a declared or undeclared Salafist principality in eastern Syria.
And this is exactly what the supporting powers to the opposition want in order to isolate the Syrian regime.
The U.S. saw the ISIL caliphate coming and did nothing.
Did you see this document in 2012?
Was this come across your table?
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I paid very close attention to all this.
OK, so when you saw this, did you not pick up a phone and say, what on earth are we doing supporting these Syrian rebels?
Sure.
I mean, that kind of information is presented and those become — I argued about it.
Did you say we shouldn't be supporting these groups?
I did.
And we argued about these, the different groups that were there, and we said, you know, who is it that is involved here?
And I will tell you that I do believe that the intelligence was very clear.
And now it's a matter of whether or not policy is going to be as clear and as defining and as precise as it needs to be.
And I don't believe it was.
But in 2012 — We really — We sort of kicked that can.
We kicked that can many times.
But three years ago, let's just be clear, just for the sake of our viewers.
In 2012, your agency was saying, quote, the Salafists, the Muslim Brotherhood and al-Qaeda in Iraq are the major forces driving the insurgents in Syria.
In 2012, the U.S. was helping coordinate arms transfers to those same groups.
Why did you not stop that?
If you're worried about the rise of, quote-unquote, Islamic extremists.
I mean, I hate to say it's not my job, but my job was to ensure that the accuracy of our intelligence that was being presented was as good as it could be.
And I will tell you, it goes before 2012.
I mean, when we were in Iraq and we still had decisions to be made before, there was a decision to pull out of Iraq in 2011.
I mean, it was very clear what we were going to face.
Well, I admire your frankness on the subject.
Very clear what we were going to face.
Let me just — one, before we move on, just to clarify once more.
You are basically saying that even in government at the time, you knew those groups were around, you saw this analysis, and you were arguing against it.
But who wasn't listening?
I think the administration.
The administration turned a blind eye to your analysis.
I don't know if they turned a blind eye.
I think it was a decision.
I think it was a willful decision.
A willful decision to support an insurgency that had Salafists, Al-Qaeda, and Muslim Brotherhood.
Right, a willful decision to do what they're doing, which you have to really ask the president, what is it that he actually is doing with the policy that is in place?
Because it is very, very confusing.
I'm sitting here today, Matty, and I can't tell you exactly what that is.
And I've been at this for a long time.
All right, Chell.
So here we are.
That was the former head of the DIA, General Michael Flynn, in this great interview.
You guys got to see this whole thing.
There's so much newsworthy stuff in this interview.
It'll blow your mind.
Al Jazeera, head to head.
We're on the line with Brad Hoff from LevantReport.com.
And I forget, Brad, you're former Army or former Marines in Iraq?
What was that?
Right, former Marines.
And I was attached to a headquarters unit stuck around Washington, D.C.
Oh, that's right.
That's right.
I'm sorry.
I was thinking of somebody else, actually.
But anyway, and then after you got out of the Marines, then you went and lived in Syria for a while, as we discussed before on the show.
Exactly.
Had an apartment in Damascus.
Lived there off and on from about 2004 to 2009, 2010 range.
OK, good deal.
So that explains your at least partial expertise and certainly your interest in this subject for talking about it here.
A hell of a lot more than I've got.
So now, one of the things that you say at the beginning of your article here in remarking upon that exchange that we just heard is you say that it's amazing that Flynn actually seemed to take issue with the way that Mehdi Hassan posed the question about American awareness of the rise of the Islamic State in August of 2012.
What do you mean by that?
Oh, exactly.
I mean, we already know that Flynn was at odds with the White House over the rise of ISIS.
We know that he briefed the White House in February 2014.
He predicted that ISIS would sweep through Iraq.
And it was soon after that briefing that he retired.
It was widely reported that he was fired, that he was at odds over ISIS policy.
And of course, we know that ISIS did sweep through Iraq.
But what's significant here is that this is really the highest level former intelligence official to really confirm all of this face-to-face with an Al Jazeera reporter.
Al Jazeera's Mehdi Hassan had the document in hand.
He's holding it up.
And hugely significant, because to my knowledge, no one at this level has ever fully acknowledged the way that Flynn does, that we were basically arming al-Qaeda.
And of course, Flynn is a major hawk.
Flynn's a major hawk.
And strangely, what I think is a contradictory argument is that we should have done more earlier.
It seems like he was arguing for some kind of bigger, overt intervention, maybe in 2011, early 2012.
But even he is now acknowledging that this whole covert program to arm the rebels in northern Syria ultimately resulted in ISIS, as he and the DIA warned in no uncertain terms with this document.
Right.
OK.
And now that's the part that I edited out just for time's sake, because it takes a while to get all the best soundbites out of that clip there.
It's already two and a half minutes long.
People can go to the article or to at antiwar.com or at your website, Levant Report.
They can watch the whole interview.
Again, I urge people to watch the entire interview.
And that's one of the subjects that I think we need to get back to would be these mythical moderates.
I just didn't want to waste people's time on that because that's kind of the real non-answer there.
But so a couple of things to cover here, first of all, I think first and foremost is he's acknowledging the importance of this document.
Now I have a friend who I think is well, he's a Twitter friend who I think is military or maybe he's a contractor for the military or something.
He knows about things like this.
At least he's a veteran and says, look, the military, the DIA and the rest of it, it's a socialist bureaucracy and everybody CCs everybody on everything, but that doesn't mean anything.
It's like the movie Brazil or something.
It's just a piece of paper with some things on it.
It doesn't mean necessarily that anybody important saw it, understood it, discussed it, cared about it, anything.
In fact, you'd expect to find really great stuff in documents like that.
You would not expect to hear the principals talk about the really great stuff because it doesn't get that high, that kind of thing.
And maybe that's true 90% of the time, but sure doesn't look like it's true in this case when the former head of the DIA is confirming that he took this to the White House or brought the issue up to the White House and that they discussed it in the most frank terms and know this was no mistake.
They knew exactly what they were doing.
And now the music's playing.
We got to go to break.
And when we get back, we're going to talk about just what he means by about back in the mythical moderates and, and, and what he means about, they knew what they were doing too.
So hang tight.
Brad Hoff right after this.
Hey, I'll check out the audio book of Lou Rockwell's fascism versus capitalism narrated by me, Scott Horton at audible.com.
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All right, y'all welcome back to the show.
I'm Scott Horton.
It's my show.
Scott Horton show.
I'm talking with Brad Hoff from Levant report.com.
We're talking about that DIA document from August of 2012 about the rise of the Islamic state and, uh, and now this new interview by general Michael Flynn, the former head of the defense intelligence agency, uh, with Al Jazeera.
And I know you guys hear this at the top of the show every day, but I wanted to play a clip and actually two different clips of Hillary Clinton here.
These are both from the very beginning of March, 2012, even before this DIA report, very beginning of March, 2012 on CBS news.
And she's being asked the question, of course, uh, from the right, how come we're not doing more to help the rebels in Syria?
And here's how she responds in two parts.
We know Al Qaeda Zawahiri is supporting the opposition in Syria.
Are we supporting Al Qaeda in Syria?
Hamas is now supporting the opposition.
Are we supporting Hamas in Syria?
So I think why, you know, despite the great pleas that we hear from those people who are being ruthlessly assaulted by Assad, if you're a military planner or if you're a secretary of state and you're trying to figure out, do you have the elements of an opposition that is actually viable?
We don't see that.
All right.
All right.
So she was secretary of state at the time there.
And then, uh, of course that was her last year in office.
And after the election, she resigned and handed the reins over to Kerry.
And as soon as she was out, she put it in the New York Times, Brad, that, well, me and Panetta and Petraeus all wanted to arm up the rebels more and Obama wouldn't let us do it.
And, uh, and yet there she is explaining in a perfectly cogent manner exactly why not to do that.
These are the veterans of Al Qaeda in Iraq.
Exactly.
And, and even connected with this DIA report, um, if you, if you go look at NBC archives, um, of White House briefings in September, 2014, I think specifically September 29th, uh, White House spokesman said, Hey, that's the day they came out, said everyone was surprised over the rapid advance of ISIS.
It was kind of like, where did they come from?
Our intel agencies just didn't see them coming.
I even think the CIA was thrown under the bus at that time.
And of course, now we have Flynn, uh, we have this, uh, this document, I mean, there it is in clear words, uh, confirming that at the very least, uh, the White House was lying.
Um, I think the common people, they, they know what's happening.
Uh, but what's great about, uh, you know, Flynn in retirement singing like a bird is that, uh, well, we have the insiders coming forward telling us that this is the case.
And, uh, here we have the document to prove it.
That's right.
So yeah, I mean, this is for anybody who already knows this stuff, well, duh guys, but Hey, we're just trying to be, you know, as careful as we can and dot as many eyes and cross as many teas as we can.
But yes, it's a fact that in 2011, the dawn of the Arab spring, there was a report immediately in the guardian, but I forget the guy's name who said Prince Bandar is sending Mujahideen to Syria right now.
And then about a week later, Eric Margulies came out and said, I just got back from France where I talked to all my friends and friends in French intelligence and in the French military, and they've got special forces on the ground right now leading the rebellion.
And so, and then by December, 2011, we had Phil Giraldi in the American conservative magazine saying that there's a brand new finding that is a secret order by the president United States authorizing the CIA to increase covert action against Iran and Syria.
And that was, you know, months before we even had that, that quote from Hillary.
So yeah, certainly knew what was going on.
And I have a story from, uh, the future freedom foundation, um, stupidity or the plan that came out a year before the fall of Mosul.
And it was right at the point where the Islamic state was, uh, basically renaming Al Nusra the Islamic state before Al Nusra said, no, we're still on this row.
And Zawahiri told the Islamic state to go back to Iraq.
And then all that happened, whatever it was right in the middle of that.
But I was saying, look, they've just renamed it the Islamic state and look where they are.
They're in lawless territory where the government of Iraq has no influence there.
And, and the government of Syria has no influence there.
And so it's just a snap of a fingers for the Islamic state to go from the name of a group to an actual place.
Bin Laden's wildest dream when he was locked in his attic in 2011 became literally the reality within two years because of the USA.
And speaking of Bin Laden and Zawahiri, um, you know, connected with general Flynn, uh, Flynn during that key time, uh, we're talking, I think something like 2004 to 2007 was a senior intelligence officer for a JSOC.
Okay.
Uh, for a couple of years he was chair of the military intelligence board.
And I think that was 2012 to 2014.
I mean, this guy was one of the inner circle guys, uh, and in terms of the global hunt for Al-Qaeda and JSOC being higher than SOCOM.
SOCOM is the special operations command.
JSOC is an entirely different chain of command, basically answerable only to the president.
Well, I don't know exactly how they structure it under Obama, but they are the elite, the very top tier special forces, SEAL team six and the Delta force, not the Rangers and force recon.
Exactly.
And that's why people need to watch this interview.
I mean, we're talking like five, six full minutes of, uh, Flynn talking about this document.
Um, and you know what, you're exactly right in terms of, yeah, these documents circulating around the halls of the Pentagon and the state department can be a dime a dozen.
It's true.
We have Flynn saying for it to even reach his desk for him to say, I use this as, you know, one among other source materials to argue with the white house.
That means this report was significant.
And uh, you know, early on after I did my initial reporting back in May over this document, I had people pile on me, uh, you know, both online and, uh, in personal emails.
And uh, you know, the assumption of all was just that, oh, this couldn't have been important.
This wasn't seen by anyone.
Uh, but no, interestingly, Marcy Wheeler writing in salon.com and I think June was the only one to really do her homework, um, you know, legal wise connected with the, uh, judicial watches FOIA request.
Okay.
And so in her salon article, uh, I think it was called the Benghazi scandal we should really be talking about something like that.
Um, you know, she pulled the, uh, uh, the terms through which judicial watch originally received the document and, uh, judicial watch received them, uh, you know, based on this, uh, this finding any and all records produced by any official of the DOD or state in preparation for use during or pursuant any briefing of congressional leaders and intelligence committee leaders.
So at the very least we know Congress saw this document too, or at least had it made available to them.
And uh, this means it was important.
This means it wasn't just a four guys in a basement saw it and that was it.
And yes, there's a likelihood that, um, it actually came through maybe a liaison intelligence agency.
Uh, but the fact that it was filtered up the chain of command so high as Flynn now confirmed, uh, mean that this means that this is a significant document.
And frankly, I think every American should print it out, have it in their hands, and uh, should be asking some serious questions.
Look, I mean, I, I hate sounding this extreme about it or whatever, but there ain't nothing else to call this, but treason.
And there's no way to deny it.
Now the head of the DIA says he argued with the white house that look, we're back in Al Qaeda.
That's who's benefiting from this aid and comfort is Al Qaeda.
The group that is sworn in allegiance to Ayman al Zawahiri, the only actual enemy the American people have on this planet other than our own government and, and the, the Hillary Clinton, David Petraeus, Leon Panetta, uh, you know, political operative response is yeah, but we hate Assad more because that's what Israel and Saudi and Turkey want.
I mean, it's treason.
I don't care if we're allies with those guys.
And in fact, to anyone who, this just sounds completely incredible and you can't believe a word that you're hearing.
I know I risk sounding like John Birch, but just go and look and check it out yourself.
It's at foreign affairs.com the official journal of the most prestigious centrist foreign policy establishment think tank in America, a hundred years old, the council on foreign relations, foreign affairs magazine from March 9th of this year, accepting Al Qaeda, accepting Al Qaeda.
They are our friends in Syria.
And we saw in the news just last week where, uh, two weeks ago where they sent the DOD trained soldiers in, they thought they were going to join up with Al Nusra to fight ISIS and Al Nusra immediately captured them and turned on them.
And the Americans complained to the New York times that, well, we expected to be greeted as allies by these guys because we've been treating them as our allies.
This is exactly the way that the ambassador got killed in Benghazi too, Brad, was they put him in the middle of the Hornets nest fighting for his enemies and then surprise, they stung him.
Well, look, look, when I was in the military, there was a notion of lawful orders, right?
And we all took a, an oath to protect and defend the constitution from enemies, foreign and domestic.
And uh, I've had conversations, uh, usually email exchanges with some friends that I still have like in the intelligence world and around DC and uh, you know, they know what's going on.
They know the game.
They email me, look, you know, intelligence doesn't set policy and that's true, right?
The job of the intelligence and the, and the lower levels is to paint as accurate a picture as possible.
And that's what we have in this, uh, DIA document.
And yeah, they can make noise about it, but it's true.
Their hands are tied.
But I typically respond to them, look, I know it's hard, but we all took an oath here.
And uh, illegal criminal orders are no valid orders at all.
In fact, I was expressly given a class in the military stating that.
And so the fact is, um, you know, if you're some low level intel guy and you're supposed to train a group of, uh, uh, Syrian recruits with, uh, you know, beards down to their bellies who are talking about establishing some kind of salafist or Islamic state, uh, well, I would argue that whatever orders you've been given, those are not lawful, valid orders.
Yeah.
And you know what?
If you're brave enough to risk your skin killing innocent people and maybe getting maimed or dying in one of these ridiculous wars, then you ought to be brave enough to take some documents and go on 60 minutes and maybe have to do a little bit of prison time or flee to Russia for a few years, like Snowden or something to tell the truth to the American people.
And we saw when, when, uh, the lobby was trying to get us to bomb Syria in 2013, that all of these soldiers started putting, uh, on YouTube and on Facebook, these mean pictures of them covering their face, but you can tell they're wearing fatigues and their sign says, I didn't join up the service to fight for Al Qaeda.
And I mean, you're talking, they're facing mutiny because the word gets around quick.
These guys aren't the most sophisticated about who's who in geopolitics and whatever, but the word gets around quick that, Hey, you know, you hear Obama's thinking about having us fight for the Al Qaeda guys in Syria.
Now they can understand that, you know what I mean?
They're pissed.
Yeah.
No, exactly.
Um, you know, in the media too, mainstream media too.
I mean, we have so much information.
I mean, we've got these, you know, this physical DIA report in hand, they, you got guys like, uh, XCIA number two guy, Mike Morrell going around, right.
He's wanting to do the interviews.
How hard is it to, uh, like Al Jazeera, like, um, like Mehdi Hassan, how hard is it to put these questions to these guys?
And that's what frustrates me.
Um, the Al Jazeera program, by the way, ran on Al Jazeera international on multiple days last weekend.
Um, the producer of head to head, which is the particular program told me that it is likely set to air on Al Jazeera America.
So hopefully there will be a broader American viewership, but you know what, it is up for, it is up for paid media, paid journalists, um, who have access.
They need to print this document out and they need to be asking Mike Morrell.
They need to be asking the state department.
They need to be asking more questions of, of Mike Flynn or anyone who will talk.
Cause there's plenty of guys going on these little book tours.
Um, and so it's up, it's up to, uh, it's up to the media to ask these questions.
Well, it really is, you know, a big lie situation where it's just impossible to face up to the unface up to a bull or whatever, as Homer Simpson would say, right?
Like if one weekend on CNN, they have to finally go ahead and get it together and say, okay, actually Assad is the strongest force on earth fighting against the Islamic state.
And we don't know what in the world we were doing, championing all the rest of his enemies.
If not ISIS this whole time, uh, this is crazy, you know, but hell even ran Paul when he's trying to sort of kind of tell the truth about America's role in the rise of the Islamic state, at least in Syria, in the debate the other day, botched it so bad, uh, that it basically made no sense.
I mean, there's, there's nobody really on that level who's willing to say it because again, and I know I'm sorry, I go on and on and I'm hyperbolic and I'm repeating myself, but it's treason.
There's no other way to call it other than treason.
When they're sworn loyal to Ayman al-Zawahiri and they've never been shy about it this whole time and they still say they are and America is still backing them.
Even in 2015, they're got this whole new PR thing to rebrand these guys as the moderate fighters compared to, uh, the Islamic state instead of the obvious truth that it's Assad's army that is the moderate opposition to the Islamic state and al-Nusra.
Yeah, the official, uh, Westpac group in the North, I think is calling themselves, uh, Army of Conquest and the Army of Conquest, when they took Idlib, uh, one of the first things they did, um, they burned to death, uh, two Syrian Christians who ran a liquor store and of course then destroyed the liquor store.
And there's all kinds of other horror stories, uh, like that.
But you know what?
You know, Yeah, murdering a bunch of Druze who refused to convert too.
No, exactly.
And the thing is, I'm not just griping about this in terms of griping about the past and let's get the historical record straight.
Americans need to realize that with this creeping no-fly zone, uh, you know, in cooperation with Turkey, um, that's creeping over northern Syria.
People need to realize that this is a path to all-out war, um, but, uh, you know, if we just continue on this path, we're going to be yet in another, uh, disastrous conflict.
Um, and that's why, you know, information like this report, they're important, not just to getting the past record straight.
It's important that Americans wake up and, uh, know the real game, what's really happening on the ground and what, uh, what our policies are doing and what the policies of our allies like Saudi Arabia and Turkey and Qatar are doing.
Right.
Yeah, absolutely.
And if we didn't have it, what would happen if, um, the foreign backed forces were to really win out over the Syrian army and what would be the fate of all the various sects of Christians, the Shia, the Druze, and the Alawites, uh, would, I mean, what's the, the slogan is what kill all the Alawites and all the Christians to the sea or all the Alawites to the grave, the Christians to the sea or something like that?
No, exactly.
And, um, really even any, any Sunni, any mainstream Muslim that is not on board, um, with the radical sectarian vision, which includes the majority of Sunnis in Syria right now.
In fact, exactly.
I mean, there's a West Point, a couple of months ago, West Point, um, put out an article called, uh, um, you know, the Sunni Syrian Sunnis and the regime's resilience.
And it was fully acknowledged by a respected military institution that, uh, the majority of, uh, uh, citizens that were sticking by the government were, were Sunnis, right?
Not because they all hail the government as the greatest thing in the world, but they realized that, uh, their sovereignty has been taken away a long time ago.
Uh, sadly, none of this is being decided by actual Syrians anymore.
Right.
All right.
Well, I've kept you way over time here and I'll let you go, but thank you so much for your great coverage of this and for your patience while I'm screaming and yelling during your interview too.
Oh, it was great.
And look, everyone needs to watch this Al Jazeera report.
Everyone needs to, uh, read the DIA document.
Yep.
It's all right there.
Uh, check out levantreport.com, bradhoff at levantreport.com.
And it's also in his archives at antiwar.com, original.antiwar.com slash brad underscore Hoff.
And it's called former DIA chief warned white house of ISIS rise.
And if you're just looking for the interview, uh, it's Mehdi Hassan with one S Mehdi Hassan and Michael Flynn, general Michael Flynn, formerly the head of the DIA on the show head to head Al Jazeera show head to head.
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