05/26/15 – Will Grigg – The Scott Horton Show

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All right, you guys, welcome back.
I'm Scott Horton.
All right, on the line, I got our good friend, Will Gregg, and I've already convinced him to stay for the whole hour with us because we have so much different stuff to talk about.
And he's such a great journalist, covers so many very important things.
But I was, and I'm sorry, because I meant to talk to you about this off the air real quick, but got a little sidetracked there, Will.
I was hoping that, first of all, we could talk about the story of Kenneth Trinidue and Jesse Trinidue and where they are now in the court process in Utah.
This is such an important story and, well, I think it's just as interesting to the audience as it is to me.
So could you give us the rundown?
And I know you can.
Kenneth Trinidue was murdered by the FBI.
There's no other suitable way of describing it.
He had served time in prison as a bank robber, and he was on parole when the Oklahoma City bombing took place in April of 1995.
He was visiting his wife's family in northern Mexico, and he came across a border crossing just a week or two after the bombing.
And he had been red flagged by our overseers.
And he was arrested and taken into custody for a supposed parole violation, which he hadn't committed, and then flown to a facility fairly near Ground Zero, the site of the former Murrah building in Oklahoma City, where he was interrogated by the FBI and a group of other people.
And by interrogated, I mean he was beaten to death systematically.
There was evidence that he had been garroted, among other things.
He had sold himself dear.
Now, the reason why he was taken into custody is because he bore an uncanny resemblance both in terms of physiognomy and criminal career to a man by the name of Richard Lee Guthrie, who was part of a Midwestern bank robbery gang, an Aryan Nations offshoot, that had been sponsored and infiltrated by elements of the federal government, including the FBI.
And so he was a loose thread that needed to be knitted up after what was probably a bad sting operation gone awry in Oklahoma City that led to the death of 169 people.
He was not Mr. Guthrie.
Mr. Guthrie was elsewhere within the bowels of the American gulag.
He was already in custody.
But one appendage of the Hydra didn't know what the other was doing.
And because he bore resemblance to Mr. Guthrie and because he had been a bank robber, he was mistaken for Mr. Guthrie and then taken and killed.
And within about a year, Mr. Guthrie likewise died in his cell under circumstances that were highly suspicious.
He supposedly hanged himself in spite of the fact that he had promised that he would disclose what he had known about the federal government's dealings with the people out of whom the Oklahoma City bombing plot coalesced.
But within a day, less than a day of the death of Kenny Trentado, his mother was contacted by the warden and told that he had committed suicide in his cell and he wanted permission to cremate the body, which of course would have destroyed the evidence.
Kenny's brother, Jesse, is an attorney and Jesse filed the right paperwork and issued the proper notices and made the proper ritual invocations in order to prevent the destruction of his brother's body.
They obtained custody of his body and it was so thoroughly traumatized that it would have required the services of Cleopatra's embalmers in order to make it look suitable and presentable for an open casket funeral.
But Jesse demanded that there be an open casket funeral because he wanted people to see the handiwork of the federal government.
They had gone through and sanitized the cell.
They had tried to maintain the pretense that he had killed himself when it was clear, as the coroner pointed out in his report, that this was the result of homicide, not suicide.
And both Jesse and the coroner received very stern warnings, not particularly subtle ones as well, that they were making enemies within the Bureau of Prisons and that it was just one federal government.
If you were not going along with the program, if you were not embracing the official cover story in a way that discomfited the ambitions of the people running the federal government, in any particular, you were making enemies out of everybody.
So since that time, this would have been 1995, 20 years, Jesse Trededue has been doing what he can in order to find out how it was that his brother ended up where he was, dying the way he did.
And in doing so, he has managed through a barrage of freedom of information requests and through civil action.
There's pried loose a great deal of material about this so-called sting operation that was run through an off-the-shelf FBI long-term initiative called PATCON, or Patriot Conspiracy.
And it didn't limit itself to what was going on in Oklahoma City.
There were appendages and tendrils of PATCON that were woven into many, many projects and many domestic terrorism initiatives.
And one of the things that I wrote about recently, by way of bringing this back to the surface, is the fact that just within the last couple of years, John Matthews, who was the chief asset of Vietnam veterans suffering from apparently fatal Agent Orange effects, he was the person being used by the FBI as a cat's paw to infiltrate not only the so-called radical right groups, but people who were to the right, marginally to the right of what's considered the acceptable political spectrum.
But John Matthews, in talking with his handler within the FBI, a man by the name of Don Jarrett, brought up the fact that they had been, within the FBI, in the mid-1990s, making overtures to outlaw motorcycle gangs in the southwestern United States, Arizona primarily, but of course there's a geographic range that would include Texas and New Mexico and some other states, where the FBI was providing them with illegally converted, fully automatic machine guns and doing so at the same time that groups associated with, I'm guessing from what I read, Chinese triad criminal societies were smuggling heroin to the United States.
This is something being done with the knowledge of the FBI and with the active participation of the FBI.
And when I got a hold of the material from Mr. Trenodue, I've, along with a number of other journalists, been involved in a long-term relationship where he's been sharing material with me, and relatively few of us have been interested in it, which I find just utterly implausible.
But he provided me with some of the email correspondence in question where he had mentioned these transactions, and Mr. Jarrett, his former FBI handler, confirmed the details of it.
So I sent a message to the office of the Inspector General at the Justice Department saying, in effect, do you want to do anything about this?
Because here we have, on the record, a man who is an FBI asset talking with his FBI handler about the fact that the 1990s, you had something very nearly akin to the fast and furious gun walking scandal that the ATF was involved in just a few years ago.
But it involved outlaw motorcycle gangs, outlaw motorcycle clubs, I should say, OMCs.
Is this something that you might want to look into?
And I got back a very perfunctory message a few days later saying, well, we've examined the allegations.
They don't strike us as being worthy of a formal investigation.
And I brought this up more recently in a posting I made at the rockwell.com blog site talking about what happened in Waco and the fact that you had outlaw motorcycle gangs supposedly involved in a shootout.
Turns out there's not a whole lot of evidence that they were the ones that were shooting.
But I said in the larger context here, you've got to understand that the federal government through PATCON has, among other very nasty initiatives, been arming and working with those elements within the OMC community, if you want to style it as such, who have been involved in narcotic smuggling and other criminal activity.
And this is the sort of thing that we find so frequently, as you well know, Scott, whenever there's any kind of large scale criminal undertaking in this country, the chances are pretty good that it has been not only surveilled, but infiltrated by the federal government and co-opted toward their political ends, which don't involve protecting persons and property, but do involve underscoring the supposed indispensability of these various agencies, so that at budget time they can go before the Congress and demand a greater outpouring of plundered revenue in order to fund the people who were employed by that agency.
And the other thing that I find interesting that I brought up in the context of what happened in Waco recently is the fact that in the late years of the last decade, 2006 through about 2009, there was a so-called outlaw motorcycle club called the Pagans that had been infiltrated and kept under surveillance by the Justice Department.
And they were talking about this group as if it were a large scale criminal syndicate.
They retained the FBI, retained the services as Sergeant of Arms of a convicted murderer in that group.
And eventually the only thing they got by way of criminal activity was evidence that they had been running a raffle, which doesn't strike me really as a badass biker type of thing to do.
All right.
Well, there's so much to follow up on, but we're going to have to wait till after this break.
Hold tight, everybody.
We'll be right back.
I'm Greg from ProLibertate, freedominourtime.blogspot.com.
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All right, you guys, welcome back to the show.
You know, I didn't even give Will a proper introduction at all.
Will Grigg.
Isn't he great?
Well, listen to the things he says, man.
It's awesome.
All right.
He's also a brilliant writer and you can find him at Freedom in Our Time.
He insists, really.
Freedom in Our Time dot blogspot dot com.
And the blog is Pro Libertate.
He's also the author of the book Liberty in Eclipse and does the Freedom Zealot podcast.
And so we're talking about Pat Con and Oklahoma City and Jesse and Kenneth Trinidu.
And now even the local masker in Waco has come up in terms of the precedent in the Pat Con operation.
The FBI's Pat Con operation infiltrate the radical right in the 90s and their arming of motorcycle gangs.
Now, but I wanted to rewind, rewind to what you said here at Lew Rockwell's blog.
And also just now you kind of made reference to it.
You seem to think, and I wonder why, that the people killed there, the bikers killed there were all or mostly all shot by the cops rather than each other.
So far, we don't have any identified shooters within the 170 people who are rounded up on organized crime charges that are tainted with the prospect of being held in some way criminally liable for nine counts of criminal homicide.
And the nature of the shooting in terms of what I've been able to find out, the wounds that were inflicted, the fatal wounds inflicted on the victims are not what you would see if you had a melee erupting in a parking lot and people firing wildly while trying to find cover, which is the sort of thing that you'd have if you're dealing with people who are not particularly well-trained and not all that well-prepared for a gunfight spontaneously to erupt.
There were people who fled back into the restaurant after the shooting began.
Some of them were arrested in the restaurant.
And we do know that there were people with the police who are snipers and who had the high ground and it seems to be very plausible at this point, given what little we know, that the nine people were all killed by the police or perhaps most of the nine people were killed by the police.
After perhaps a random act of gunfire or the eruption of the fight and concerns over gunfire emerging as the fight escalated.
But right now, we just don't have any evidence to connect any of the people who have been arrested with any specific shooting.
I presume them all innocent.
Well, of course we should, and it's constitutionally mandated and morally appropriate to presume them all innocent.
I do find it interesting that you had this officer Braylo case in Cleveland where you had, what, 149 shots fired at a stationary car and the officer himself climbing on top of the hood and reloading at least once and firing into the windshield to kill these two people who were unarmed and at this point cut off and helpless.
You had, I don't know how many law enforcement officers involved in this, what we would have to call homicide, who refused to cooperate with the prosecution or to file statement.
The reason why the judge, and this is a bench trial, of course, they weren't going to put this before a jury.
The reason why the judge decided that officer Braylo could not be held guilty for criminal homicide is because he could not specifically connect any of his gunshots to the fatal wounds that were inflicted on that couple.
And yet we have 170 people in the state of Texas right now, almost none of whom had anything to do with the fight and to this day so far, none of whom has been connected to any of the gunshots that were fired, but they're all being held right now and facing the prospect of some element of criminal liability for the killing of nine people who were probably killed by the police, which makes perfect sense if you understand how what we're told to call the law operates in America right now as opposed to the way it's supposed to function.
Right.
In other words, they're looking for when they can shoot and then they do at the minimum.
That's it.
Yes.
They of course knew that this meeting was going to take place.
This meeting was not some kind of a gang summit because you're not dealing with gangs, you're dealing with motorcycle clubs that at the edges are somewhat tainted by criminal conduct on behalf of discrete individual members of these motorcycle clubs.
This is something that had been long planned and that had, to the extent that we've been given in public information what was going on, that had nothing to do with plotting or carrying out criminal activity.
It's been characterized by some people as simply a way of clearing the air involving territorial disputes among these private organizations that to some extent flatter themselves that their kingdoms or principalities of some sort.
This wasn't the sort of thing, in other words, that would have made really good copy or made really good drama for Sons of Anarchy, which is the lens through which most of the public now is perceiving what happened there in Waco.
As a point of personal privilege here, in my former career as a musician, I spent a lot of time in, if you will, the biker milieu, playing in biker bars and dealing with bikers.
I have never had a problem with any of them.
When I was living in Rexburg, Idaho as a teenager, Rexburg, Idaho being a stop on the way to Yellowstone, every July or August, the Hells Angels would materialize literally across the street from my house on the corner because there was only one bar in this Mormon town.
It was called Poor Old Don's Place.
Their parking lot would be filled with the motorcycles of the Hells Angels as they would go there and refuel on the way to West Yellowstone.
The cops would hover at the periphery and we didn't have any problems at all.
I'm not particularly put off by outlaw motorcycle clubs.
I've often told my children, if you find yourself in a strange city and you're in trouble, try to find a biker.
A biker will help.
A police officer may or may not.
I'm not particularly put off by any of this.
I am, however, put off by the fact that there is this assumption that a group of bikers assembling at a, forgive me for using the expression, titty bar, are going to be troublesome to the people who live in that community.
What I think here is that you have overcompensation on the part of law enforcement coupled with a certain opportunistic spin that's being put on this incident after the fact.
I would be willing to bet that as the facts come out, assuming that we're going to be given the facts, we'll find out that some bad things took place, that there were pushing and shoving incidents and there were other unpleasantries that ensued, but that this was the product of overreaction by the police.
After the fact, they're trying to put some kind of a cosmetic enhancement on it to make it look as if they had aborted a horrible potential threat to the community here when the threat was entirely their own contrivance.
I suspect that's what we're going to learn.
Yeah.
All right.
Now, so let's get back to the PatCon operation in the 90s here and the story of this guy, John Matthews, who was the undercover informant or asset or whatever of the FBI during that time.
There's a lot going on here, and Jesse Trinidou had sent me this, a link to SipsyStreetIrregulars.blogspot.com.
And what they have there is what they say is the full version, the uncensored version of a Newsweek article by R.M. Schneiderman, who did a serious piece of journalism about this PatCon informant and his story, and apparently huge pieces of it were cut out, at least according to this blog.
Well, so I called Jesse Trinidou, and he never had a copy of the article, but they read him the whole thing on the phone, and he said, yeah, this is the censored part, all right.
It's, you know, trust me, it's legit.
And that the Newsweek people had talked to him and that they had done a serious piece of journalism here, only all the best parts had been cut to the editing room floor before it got publication.
And so this all has to go, has to do with, of course, Jesse's case as it moves forward.
And in fact, the current state of the court at trial right now, and the judge's orders to the FBI and all that.
So that's where we'll pick up on the other side of this break that we're already at again.
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Hey, I'm Scott.
It's my show.
Scott Horton Show.
I got Will Grigg on the line from freedominourtime.blogspot.com.
And we're talking about the FBI's PACON operation back in the 1990s, infiltrating the populist right from harmless to Nazi, and making more and worse of them all the time, and in fact including the Oklahoma City bombing in some ways.
And now part of the reason that we know that, and we already knew that, but part of the reason we know that is because of this guy, John Matthews.
And if I have this right, Will, Jesse Trenadue, who you previously described his role in all of this, suing in the courts in Utah there, I guess the federal courts in Utah, he's got an actual FOIA trial going on to get the videotapes, all the surveillance tapes that he knows exist and can prove exist of the Oklahoma City bombing that, of course, would show McVeigh's accomplice with him, rather than him being alone like in the mythology there.
And so, but now he wanted to bring John Matthews to explain to the judge why this is a thing and you ought to let Jesse win this side of the thing.
And yet John Matthews, the former FBI informant, now turned plaintiff's informant, is nowhere to be found.
What gives?
What gives is that the FBI is strongly invested in preventing Mr. Matthews from testifying.
He's living outside of the jurisdiction of a civil subpoena in this case out of Salt Lake City.
And during a conversation that he had almost a year ago, July 9th of 2014, with then FBI Special Agent Adam Quirk in Salt Lake City, Mr. Matthews said that he was not going to obey a subpoena.
Or, if he was forced to testify, if somehow he'd end up within the radius of jurisdiction here and he was compelled to attend the trial in Salt Lake City, he'd perjure himself.
He said this in a phone conversation with Adam Quirk, who is an officer of the FBI and an attorney and an officer of the court, somebody who'd sworn perjuriously enough to the Constitution and who is morally, legally, and constitutionally required to tell this man that he has a duty to testify.
Tell the truth, may the heavens fall.
But that's not what Quirk said.
What Matthews said in that phone conversation is, I ain't going and I ain't saying nothing unless somebody issues me a subpoena.
He said, if they haul my ass to Salt Lake City, I'm going to sit there on the stand and say that I don't recall anything.
And Quirk replied, that's fine.
And then on the following day, they had a subsequent conversation.
And Quirk said, worst case scenario, even if you testified, you can just say that you have nothing to say.
And Matthews was eager to please Quirk because of fear of retribution against his family.
That's an important element in some of the legal filings that Mr. Trent do has made here.
He was concerned about the potential of retaliation against himself, against his family, cutting off the payments upon which he depends for his treatment for Agent Orange effects.
But Matthews was obviously motivated to please Quirk.
He suggested that he might take a trip and thereby make himself unavailable in the event that a subpoena was issued.
And Quirk replied, that's fine.
And then using the familiar Anglo-Saxon vulgarism, blank them, right?
In other words, blank the court, blank the judge, perform a similar action upon the interests of Mr. Trent do and Mr. Trent do's family.
And of course, their only interest now, as you pointed out, Scott, is to try to pry loose from whatever place it's concealed, the videotapes that show Mr. McVeigh in the company of the others unknown listed in the original indictment back in 1995.
Very few people remember, because very few people remember anything about the case apart from the fact that Mr. McVeigh was convicted and executed for the crime.
Very few people remember that the indictment listed Timothy McVeigh and others unknown.
And the others unknown have remained unknown.
And this John Doe 2, or John Doe's, but let's personify this as one individual for the purposes of this discussion.
This John Doe 2 remains at large an accomplice in what had been the largest act of terrorism on American soil to be committed to that point, and what remains to this day the largest act of domestic terrorism, in which 169 people, including 17 small children, were murdered.
And the FBI obviously is not doing what it can, contrary to its oft-repeated intentions of overturning every stone and beating every brush and doing whatever it can to extract and make public all the evidence having to do with this crime.
And it's only, and I use the term only, I guess, in shock quotes, it's only 20 years ago that this happened.
We're not talking about the JFK assassination or the Martin Luther King assassination.
We're not rummaging around and...
As long as we're talking shelf life, right?
Yeah.
Like Bill Hicks said.
Yeah, it's still within, I would think, the routine and unexpected and predictable half-life of public attention for those who are adults.
I mean, this is something that had a tremendous impact on the public mind.
There were legislative initiatives that happened in the wake of that atrocity.
Much of what we're putting up with now in terms of the suffocating enhancements of security at airports actually began after Oklahoma City, not after 9-11.
And every episode of that sort where you've got, in this case, clear pre-knowledge on the part of the FBI, if not active involvement of people controlled by the FBI in that crime.
And in the case of 9-11, you have many FBI agents with whom I spoke 15 years ago, almost, telling me that people had anticipated that attack in lower Manhattan on or around that day, and they had been prevented from doing their jobs.
We've talked with...
You and I have talked with people who have been involved in the Bureau trying to prevent that attack.
But every time the government fails in this fashion, it actually succeeds spectacularly.
Because government is the only human enterprise that actually profits through its failure because it requires more power and more resources and less accountability.
And the highest level officials on this case have admitted it on the record, too.
I forgot which, Danny Coulson or Defenbaugh or both or what, both of those guys, FBI agents, are on the record saying, yeah, we think the neo-Nazis did it.
And, of course, they're referring to guys who were at least halfway state's witnesses and federal agents down to the last man.
And then even in the new book, relatively new book, a couple years old, by Gumbel and Charles, Oklahoma City, in there they have the prosecutor on the case, on the federal case, saying that if you had our entire team together, we would all agree that, yeah, we let guilty go free.
Their excuse is because they wanted to make sure that McVeigh got the death penalty.
And if they admitted that any more people were in on it than that, then he might get less than the death penalty.
And that was not kosher whatsoever.
So in order to make sure that he got killed, they had to let the rest go free.
That was their rationalization anyway.
Although, of course, we know the real story is because they were up to their eyeballs in it and, as you just said, had all the prior knowledge in the world that they needed that they could have stopped the attack with.
They could have interdicted it very easily.
And I'm talking, for the most part, about the denizens of Elohim City, which was this neo-Nazi enclave that was overrun with people who were connected to at least one, and in many instances, more than one federal agency.
Or in the case of Andreas Strassmayer, somebody who was involved with not only the U.S. FBI and probably the ATF and most likely the CIA, but also probably German intelligence.
It reminds me, quite frankly, some of the episodes of Get Smart, which, as is the case with most parodies, tells more truth than straight entertainment or even straight history.
There were many episodes of Get Smart where Maxwell Smart and his control agents would go in and bust a cabal of chaos agents and find out that all the chaos agents were double agents working either for control of the CIA or British intelligence.
And this is the sort of thing, of course, that can extract sort of a wry chuckle if it's portrayed in a sitcom.
But this is an instance where you had pretty much the same thing happening in which almost 170 Americans died.
And the one person who's been trying to find out some substantial element of the truth here is the brother of a man who was murdered by the FBI in a case of mistaken identity because they believe that he was one of the assets that had been let free, that he was one of the John Does, one of the multiple John Does involved in either a feeder to the plot to bomb the Murrah building or involved on the scene.
And the FBI, of course, has institutional reasons not to be fully candid about what's going on and keeping these videotapes hidden away with the Ark of the Covenant, that vast warehouse that we saw at the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark.
But what Trudeau has been doing, and he's been winning in court, he's been winning repeated motions, is to get the FBI on the record and force them on pain of contempt of court to comply with their obligations under the Freedom of Information Act.
And yet a year ago, they intimidated the key witness so that he couldn't testify.
And as you say, that court case is still ongoing.
All right, hold it right there.
We'll be right back.
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All right, guys, welcome back.
On the phone with Will Grigg from Pro Libertate.
That's his great blog.
It's a collection of articles more than a blog, really.
It's not really a blog.
These aren't blog entries.
This is journalism.
FreedomInOurTime.blogspot.com for Pro Libertate.
And check out his podcast, The Freedom Zealot.
And check out his book, Liberty in Eclipse, as well.
All right, so, okay, so much to talk about here.
To sum up, only one more segment left.
But I want to mention again this thing at SIPC, which is S-I-P-S-E-Y, SIPCstreetIrregulars.blogspot.com.
And Jesse, trying to do it himself, sent me these links.
And it's to the censored version of the Newsweek story, the whole thing.
And here's this guy, John Matthews, the witness, tell the whole thing to a reporter from Newsweek.
And it got censored.
But not only did Jesse Trinidou tell me that they had read him, the reporter read him the whole article over the phone.
And so he can verify that, yeah, this is all what was in there.
This is legit stuff here.
And you can tell that it is.
This is clearly the same article as the rest of the article, just the redacted portions brought back to life here.
But he said that, in fact, Newsweek, the reporter and Newsweek, called him and said, hey, did you leak this?
And he said, no, guys, I didn't have it.
You only read it to me over the phone.
But so that's definitely the verification that this is legitimately the excised portions of this article.
And it wasn't the reporter who leaked it.
It was somebody else because the reporter called Jesse saying, hey, did you give out this article?
So very important stuff here.
And here he is, this guy Matthews, saying, yep, I saw Strossmeier and McVeigh together in San Saba, Texas, training.
And there were other FBI informants there, too.
And on and on.
A very well-reported story here, Will.
And now this is the guy that is on the lam because the FBI is obstructing justice and told him to not go to court when he'd been subpoenaed in a civil case, but still to show up in court and testify what he already spilled his entire guts to Jesse Trinidou in depositions.
I believe everything he had to say pretty much.
And then also to Newsweek here.
What I also find interesting is that Don Jarrett, this fellow who was his FBI handler in this PatCon operation, wound up in Afghanistan a couple of years ago doing what I don't know, but he's somebody who still is involved in some covert way with military intelligence or domestic law enforcement.
Do I repeat myself twice?
So this individual, Don Jarrett, is still part of whatever supporting mechanism gave rise to PatCon.
And I think it's a pretty good way to look at this if you assume that PatCon is, in some sense, either the sibling or the offspring of COINTELPRO.
COINTELPRO began in the 1950s under Hoover, and it was an operation intended to infiltrate and manipulate the radical right and the radical left.
So you had groups such as the American Indian Movement and various movements associated with civil rights, people who were close to Martin Luther King, people who were involved in the Black Panthers.
The Black Panthers was a high-priority target for COINTELPRO.
AIM, the American Indian Movement I mentioned before, was likewise a fairly high-priority target in both the case of AIM and in the case of the Black Panthers.
You had murders that were brought about through instigation and through provocation and then covered up in large measure through the justice system as now grew to COINTELPRO.
And at the same time, you had Klan organizations and neo-Nazi groups that were likewise being infiltrated and manipulated by the FBI through COINTELPRO.
So when PatCon came online, most likely in the late 1980s or early 1990s, it was something that was an off-the-shelf operation using standard-issue parts that the FBI had assembled for use during the 1960s and 1950s.
And once again, Don Jarrett, this fellow who was running John Matthews, his control within PatCon, is still very much active in whatever it is the regime is doing both overseas and most likely here at home.
When I published this piece a year ago, the last line of my article was something to the effect of, well, we'll hear from them again.
We can assume as much because they're investing this much time and effort and energy in preventing full disclosure over something that happened 20 years ago in Oklahoma City, admittedly a very consequential thing that happened 20 years ago in Oklahoma City.
But in spite of the fact that the case supposedly is still open, they're not pursuing these leads that are being turned up by Jesse Trenadue and that are ending up in print in supposedly reputable publications like Newsweek and in other venues such as SSI, the city street irregulars who do tremendous work.
Roger Charles, who used to be with ABC News, a retired Marine officer, is likewise still doing spade work to uncover what's going on.
And he provided Trenadue a number of very key documents dealing with the extent to which the FBI has agents of influence in place at ABC News and in other major journalistic outlets such as Newsweek, one would assume.
It reminds me, Scott, of nothing so much as the KGB's practice of having what they call the zom-polite, a political officer, who'd be installed in all of these institutions of consequence in Soviet Russia, including of course Pravda and TASS and some of the other media affiliates of that regime.
Yet the FBI doing precisely the same thing for exactly the same reason.
I contend that's why you ended up with this emasculated version of the PatCon story being run by Newsweek.
The zom-polite got to them and made sure that he excised or she excised whatever would be compromising to the interest of the FBI.
Well, there's important lessons here about government work overall here, I think, because the average person would think, well, I hope the FBI is keeping a close watch on a bunch of crazy neo-Nazis, bank robbers and Klansmen, and if they're really that far to the white supremacist right that they're going to commit acts of terrorism against civilians, then by golly, the FBI better be keeping a close watch.
And yet what we have here is the FBI creating a radical right where there wasn't one, creating bank robbery rings where there weren't one, creating terrorist bombings where they did not exist before, and that kind of thing.
But of course, what are they going to do?
Have a tiny little PatCon operation?
No.
Once you have a PatCon operation, you've got a bunch of people whose job it is to come up with more work to do.
And so it just grows and grows and grows until a whole lot of people get killed.
What else would you expect?
I hate to sound all grizzled and old and wise, but this is how it works.
Over the last decade, of course, we've seen the same play being used now for Homeland Security theater operations involving Muslims, where you have people who have been referred to in federal criminal trials as terrorism facilitators.
Wrap your mind around that expression.
Terrorism facilitators.
In other words, confidential informants, many of whom are petty criminals.
In some instances, you're dealing with some really nasty guys who are used to attract the attention of socially marginal and often not particularly bright young Muslim men and get them riled up over the things that the government is doing overseas to Muslims.
That's one of the interesting aspects of that branch of what the regime is doing.
Rather than talking about the impudence of infidels who refuse to grow beards or women who show their ankles or so forth, the grievances that are used to militarize and radicalize young Muslim men in these Homeland Security theater operations have to do with the conduct of the regime overseas when they're killing women and children.
And then they're told that by way of some kind of asymmetrical warfare to retaliate against the government doing these things, they should blow up a Christmas tree in Portland, or they should set off a satchel bomb in Chicago, or some such nonsense of this kind.
It's all being carried out through the ministrations of the Homeland Security theater troop and these so-called terrorism facilitators.
There's a lawsuit underway right now involving a fellow named Craig Montiel who was a terrorism facilitator in Orange County, California as part of an FBI initiative called Operation Flex.
And he infiltrated a mosque and was trying to get people to go along with whatever plan the FBI was feeding to them.
And so the people at the mosque contacted the FBI to complain about what was happening, and one of the men ends up being threatened with deportation for outing their confidential informant.
That's the sort of thing you described here.
And they got off lucky.
Yeah, exactly.
I know.
All right, now I'm sorry because we're so short on time.
Man, well, I don't have time for both of these things.
I'm going to interview you again soon about this.
I hope you're going to write about it, this U.S. Supreme Court decision upholding the doctrine of qualified immunity that's never been created by any legislature in this land, I don't believe, which is so important in the case of these cops who kicked in this crazy lady's door and killed her.
But we don't have time for that because at the end I've got to talk about what we're going to have is a fund drive for Will.
It's only in idea form now.
But you, dear listeners, especially those listening live right now, you can get a head start on the new fundraising drive that we've got for Will Grigg and his great journalism at freedominourtime.blogspot.com.
And all you've got to do is just go to any page at Pro Libertate there, freedominourtime.blogspot.com, and you can find a Donate by PayPal link right there in the right-hand margin and usually at the end of each great article, too, which you'll want to read all of them to the end.
So conveniently there's another button right down there at the end of each article.
And I will insist that you go and read Will Grigg, and I will ask you to kindly donate and help get this fund drive kicked off right.
Thank you so much for your time on the show.
It's so great to talk to you again, Will.
That means a lot to me.
Thank you.
Appreciate it.
That's freedominourtime.blogspot.com.
See you tomorrow.
Thanks.
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