11/04/14 – Jonathan Landay – The Scott Horton Show

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All right, y'all.
Welcome back to the show.
All right.
I'm writing down a giant note to myself.
I got to call Ian about what he did to the wizard here.
That just ain't how it's supposed to go.
All right.
Okay.
I got Landay on the phone.
Where'd he go?
I lost him.
I got him.
He'll be here in just a second.
Jonathan Landay, he is back in Iraq reporting for McClatchy Newspapers.
Welcome back to the show, Jonathan.
How are you?
It's good to be with you again, Scott.
Very happy to have you back on the show.
Very important piece you have here at McClatchyDC.com.
Slaughter of Anbar tribesmen shows weakness in U.S. plan to beat Islamic State.
And you're talking about the Albu Nimr tribe.
As you say here, one of Anbar's largest Sunni Muslim tribes.
Please, tell us all about it.
So the Albu Nimr live in western Iraq, quite far out, a lot of it in the desert.
And they've been fighting off attacks by the Islamic State since the Islamic State launched its offensive this summer.
In particular, there's been a lot of fighting around the city of Hete.
And about ten days or so ago, the Islamic State attacked a town, the Albu Nimr, overran it after the defenders agreed to stop fighting and to withdraw and were given a pledge that their civilians would be spared.
After the fighters left the town, the Islamic State reneged on that pledge.
They killed more than 40 or executed in public more than 40 of their prisoners and evicted thousands of civilians, at least according to leaders of the Albu Nimr and pursued them through the desert.
We're told that more than 400 of them have now been slaughtered.
The reason that this is important is because it is one of an example of clashes between the Anbar tribes who are Sunni and the Sunni extremists in which the tribes contend they've received absolutely no help from the Iraqi army or government and pleadings for U.S. airstrikes.
And this has sort of added to a long list of grievances that the tribesmen, the Sunni tribesmen hold against the Shiite-led government in Baghdad and against the army.
And for that reason, it's one of a number of hurdles that are facing this plan by President Obama to reenlist the Sunni tribes who participated in the awakening during the American occupation of Iraq and turning them against the Islamic State.
Well, now, when we talk back in April, this would have made sense from Maliki's point of view that it's good politics among the Shia that he's their protector from the Sunni extremists, this kind of thing.
But now, you've had six or eight pages' worth of history have turned since then, and Maliki's gone.
You have the new guy, Abadi.
And I could understand, okay, they don't want to arm up these Sunni tribes that they don't like, but really, they don't want to arm them up even against the Islamic State when these guys are fighting for their lives against the Islamic State?
Why in the hell not?
It's not like it's going to blow back on them that bad in this particular instance, right?
Well, that's one of the things they're concerned about.
And let's not forget about the makeup of this government.
It's dominated by Shiite religious parties who control the Shiite militias that are, in fact, the most effective fighting force now on behalf of the government.
And these parties don't want to see the Sunni tribes rearmed and at least some people believe that neither does Iran, which is the patron of the Shiite religious parties and the Shiite militias here in Iraq.
And so it's an enormous frustration to the Anbar tribes, the Sunni tribes, and it's a major obstacle to the Obama administration's strategy for crushing the Islamic State because Washington is saying that unless the government arms these tribes, it is not going to provide military advisors to the bereft Iraqi army as it tries to repulse the Islamic State in Anbar province.
So Washington wants these tribes armed in return for sending U.S. advisors to Anbar to help the army, which is, in fact, withdrawn into its major bases and is surrounded in many cases and besieged by the Islamic State.
80% of this province, which makes up about one-third of Iraq, is under the control of the Islamic State.
It's a very, very strategic piece of land.
A lot of it is barren desert, but it borders Saudi Arabia.
It borders Syria and it borders Jordan and it borders five other Iraqi provinces.
And so it's basically a roadway from which the Islamic State can shift men and materiel from Syria to the outskirts of Baghdad to five other Iraqi provinces and can threaten the Shiite holy cities of Karbala and Najaf.
Right.
Well, but it sounds like you're saying the Iranians have decided, which they are the power behind the Dallah Party and the Supreme Islamic Council, the Badr Corps and all that, and they've decided long ago and it doesn't sound like they've changed their mind about this.
They don't really care who rules Sunnistan as long as it's not them.
They're not so dumb as to try to bite off that much more than they can chew.
And so they basically, they're not willing to help the tribe.
They don't want another awakening, even if it means the tribes beating Baghdadi.
They don't care if it's Baghdadi or the tribes.
Just don't come to Baghdadi, just don't come to Karbala, right?
So, I mean, if the Iranians are in fact trying to keep the tribes from being armed and being turned against the Islamic State, it's pretty short-sighted.
Well, I mean, their policy always has been really to support those who support strong federalism, meaning break the country up.
I mean, it would be crazy for them to try to really have, I mean, we saw in practice, when the Shiite army tries to occupy Mosul, nah, they'll turn and run at the first shot fire because it's not their territory, it's somebody else's city.
So they turn and flee.
What are they going to do, dominate it forever?
Well, but as I said, Scott, it would be awfully short-sighted to allow the breakup of Iraq because the Iranians would have constant, constant violence.
No, I agree with you.
No, I agree.
Yeah, the whole thing's evil.
I mean, they helped get a million people killed in the last 10 years.
And plus, don't forget, plus don't forget, don't forget, it would strengthen the Islamic State, which is also, don't forget, fighting in Syria next door.
It is the strongest of the insurgent force, Shahar Assad, and to allow them to maintain a huge chunk of Iraq would be very counterproductive for the Iranians' effort to keep Assad in power.
Right.
But then again, if America goes in there and backs the Iranian and Shiite militias and AKA Iraqi army and all these groups to try to really defeat and vanquish the Islamic State, that's just like throwing gasoline right on the fire rather than water, right?
Except that's essentially what's going on now.
Don't forget, at least here in Iraq, we do have, we've had, you know, these American airstrikes, more than three months worth, and a lot of them have been in support of operations in which the Iranian-backed Shiite militia are involved and, in fact, elements of the Quds Force, which is the elite of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard of Iran.
And so there is kind of a de facto cooperation going on even now.
And I think, you know, some of these Sunni tribes, like this Sheikh of the Abu Nimr, who I've been speaking to for the last week, has gotten so desperate to save his people that he is willing to accept offers from 30 Shiite tribes in the south to send their gunmen to go help protect his people, his Sunni people in Anbar province.
That's how desperate the situation has become.
All right.
Well, you know, the audio has just gotten so terrible, and I know you've got to go, so we'll end it here, but thank you.
Great reporting again, Jonathan.
That's it.
He's gone.
All right, y'all.
That's the great Jonathan Landay.
Back in just a sec.
Hey, y'all.
Scott Horton here.
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