07/10/14 – Bob McCarty – The Scott Horton Show

Hey y'all, Scott here.
Ever wanted to help support the show and own silver at the same time?
Well, a friend of mine, Libertarian activist Arlo Pignotti, has invented the alternative currency with the most promise of them all, QR silver commodity discs.
The first ever QR code, one ounce silver pieces.
Just scan the back of one with your phone and get the instant spot price.
They're perfect for saving or spending at the market.
And anyone who donates $100 or more to the Scott Horton Show at scotthorton.org slash donate gets one.
And if you'd like to learn and order more, send them a message at commodity discs.com or check them out on Facebook at slash commodity discs.
And thanks.
All right, y'all.
Welcome back to the show.
I'm Scott Horton.
This is my show, The Scott Horton Show.
Our first guest on the show today is Bob McCarty.
He writes at bobmccarty.com and he's the author of the books, Three Days in August, The Clapper Memo and The National Bet.
And I know of his work going back because Jesse Trenadue is always sending me his stuff in the email, including what I got last night here.
New Oklahoma City bombing trial set to begin July 28th in Salt Lake City.
What?
New Oklahoma bombing trial.
All right.
Well, what's this about?
Bob, welcome to the show.
How are you?
Well, it denotes to probably ninety nine point nine percent of America is the fact that Jesse Trenadue's five year plus campaign to get to the heart of his brother's murder.
And in turn, he's ending up having to find out about the Oklahoma City bombing.
Well, it's come to the point where a federal judge in Salt Lake City is telling the FBI, I don't believe you when you say you've lost the videotapes.
You can't find videotapes of downtown Oklahoma City just moments before nine oh two a.m.on April 19th, 1995.
So the judge says, you know, let's do this in court.
The FBI has fought it and fought it, you know, tried to to quash the lawsuit multiple times.
But Jesse Trenadue is a man on a mission and he's finally got a court date, July 28th.
By the way, thanks for having me on the show.
Oh, thank you very much for joining us and for covering this issue, because nobody else seems to.
Well, not nobody else.
Very few others seem to see the importance in it, but you clearly do.
And I've been reading what you've been writing for quite a while now.
And you've got a great collection of Jesse's court documents, too, which is extremely valuable.
They're at Bob McCarty dot com as well, which people should look at.
Now, there's a couple of things here we know.
Hopefully the audience, my audience is somewhat familiar.
I'm not sure who all is new and who's not, but somewhat familiar with the story of Jesse Trenadue and how his brother Kenneth was killed.
And as you said, how his lawsuits regarding the murder of his brother in federal prison led to his finding out so much about the Oklahoma City bombing.
But part of this story all along, I think, is this judge that you just mentioned, which I don't know very much about him.
Judge Wattups, is this the same judge who for going on, I don't know, a decade now has been siding with Jesse and telling the feds that he's not impressed with their B.S.
And he wants to see all the stuff that they claim they can't find.
I mean, what you just said sounds like the same thing we've heard over and over again from this judge to the feds, right?
Yes, we continue to hear it because they'll say, yes, the tapes existed and we've got documents which I link to that that show correspondence between FBI agents and others that clearly state the document or the video existed.
And in court, they keep saying, well, we've looked everywhere, but we simply can't find it.
And of course, the judge didn't buy it the first time and he didn't buy it on any occasion since.
And the FBI, anyone who's familiar with them or if you're not familiar with them, they have several different ways of keeping records.
And I don't claim to be an expert, but it's not that complicated.
You got your basic files where agents keep files that they're going to be working on and they're, you know, they're not controversial, so to speak, as compared to other files.
They have I-drives, S-drives, you know, all these little names for the drives.
But, you know, when they put them into a certain category drive, it's almost like they're putting them in a cave at NORAD headquarters behind a 12 foot thick blast wall so no one can possibly get to them.
And Jesse has provided me with these documents, you know, it's there's so much information, it's really damning of the FBI.
And this is not an indictment of all FBI agents.
I think it's truly coming from the top.
And it started with the Clinton administration right after the bombing.
All right.
And now, so we got to talk about this video, because, of course, at trial, they showed, I think, just a still clip at the McVeigh trial in in Denver.
They showed a still shot from a camera that was on the same side of the street as the Murrah building.
And all it showed was, well, there's a Ryder truck.
That was basically all you could tell from it was there's a Ryder truck.
But now this lawsuit, clearly what we're talking about here, there's more and better footage than that.
And I just I sent the clip to you this morning and I just played the clip for the audience.
We just heard a pretty detailed description from either a fabulous liar or somebody who very certainly has, in fact, seen this footage of McVeigh and someone else in that truck right before the bombing in front of the Murrah building there on cam.
And they saw it from the footage.
There are simply too many impartial witnesses, people who, you know, Oklahoma City police officers right after the blast, you know, one in a book.
What first got me onto this?
Jayna Davis's book, The Third Terrorist.
I read it several years ago.
And, you know, I'm from Oklahoma.
I don't live there now.
I live in St.
Louis.
But after I read this book and I interviewed her, I interviewed David Shippers, who endorsed the book.
And he's a Chicago lawyer who ran the Clinton impeachment trial for Henry Hyde, who was then the justice chair in the U.S. House.
You know, Henry, this David Shippers said.
Jayna Davis had done such a good job on investigating, you know, it was clear to him that the Clintons and top FBI officials were involved in, you know, some chicanery and that's a friendly term.
But the video, you know, police saw it right afterwards, according to multiple sources.
The FBI guys reference it in the documents that are on the two stories that I published a couple of days ago on my site.
And, you know, too many places the FBI said they had it.
If you go back to the Boston Marathon bombing, remember all the videos that came out that showed, you know, the alleged culprits had more video than than you could shake a stick at.
Why?
Because they wanted to get somebody right away, locked up, tell the public we've done our job, you're safe.
Right.
But so what would happen if they lost that video between now and trial date for those Boston Marathon suspects?
Think there would be an outcry?
Right.
Have they built a monument yet in Boston?
If they build a memorial, then all bets are off.
You know, you can't even raise the question whether those guys are guilty because there's a memorial.
Right.
Right.
Yeah.
Once once the symbol is permanent, that's the end of that narrative.
Sounds right.
And yeah, I believe at last count, there were 24 eyeball witnesses who put someone else with McVeigh that morning in Oklahoma City that corroborate what this footage purportedly shows.
And what only makes sense if you just tell the government's version in one sentence, McVeigh's closest accomplice was two states away at the time.
You just know that's not true.
And if people just remember back how they waited six weeks, eight weeks, and then they said, oh, John Doe, too.
Now, you know, that was all confusion.
There never was a John Doe, too.
If you think back about that now, you know that they knew they were lying when they claimed that.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
And, you know, there's in Jaina Davis's book, and I keep going to this, I haven't written a book about I've written several pieces, you know, in the last four or five years.
But Jaina Davis's book, she has people such as a former congressman from Oklahoma, Ernest Iztuk, overheard by people at the scene that not not just, you know, average Joe's a cop and a lawyer who were at the scene, overheard him saying, we knew about this.
We should have done something about this.
Words to that effect.
I don't remember his exact words.
Judge Wayne Alley also, who was they originally thought it was the courthouse bomb.
He told the Portland Oregonian the same thing, that he'd been on alert.
Right.
And so and all the ATF agents out of the building the day of the bombing, you know, I'm not a I'm not a huge conspiracy theorist.
I when I write my books, I usually look at records of trial.
I look at hard copy evidence, OK, or first person interviews from people who don't have a vested interest, you know, in some narrative.
Well, listen, the the your narrative that, hey, there's more going on here that we don't know about, that we would probably find out from this footage like you've learned from Jesse and from his documents.
That's not controversial.
It's only controversial in that nobody else knows about it and the unanimity isn't there.
But as far as whether you're dealing with facts or whether you're dealing with wild conjecture, I don't think there's any question whatsoever.
I'm sorry we have to take this break now, Bob.
But when we get back with Bob McCarty, we're going to talk more about the Oklahoma bombing and the evidence.
And Jesse Trinidad, the heroic Jesse Trinidad's trial against the FBI here.
Oh, John Kerry's Mideast peace talks have gone nowhere.
Hey, I'll Scott Horton here for the Council for the National Interest, accounts for the National Interest dot org, U.S. military and financial support for Israel's permanent occupations of the West Bank and Gaza Strip is immoral and it threatens national security by helping generate terrorist attacks against our country.
And face it, it's bad for Israel, too.
Without our unlimited support, they would have much more incentive to reach a lasting peace with their neighbors.
It's past time for us to make our government stop making matters worse.
Help support CNI, a council for the National Interest dot org.
All right, y'all.
Welcome back to the show.
I'm Scott Horton.
This is my show, The Scott Horton Show.
Please head on over to Bob McCarty dot com, Bob McCarty dot com.
And he's got a couple of pieces you need to look at here.
New OKC bombing trial set to begin July 28th in Salt Lake City.
And did FBI agent try to sell missing OKC bombing video to NBC?
Another very important article worth your attention there.
And now, so just real quick, we're talking about Jesse Trinidou and his it's actually going to trial.
A FOIA case is going to trial in Utah.
Jesse Trinidou, whose brother Kenneth, was killed in federal custody in presumably what seems to be a case of mistaken identity.
He was a spitting image, time, place and tattoos and redheaded mullet and everything for a guy named Richard Guthrie, who could have been John Doe number two or one of McVeigh's accomplices in the Oklahoma City bombing, which is how poor Jesse got caught up in this entire story.
And so now he's just he's a lawyer.
They murdered the brother of a lawyer.
And so he's just been fighting them with paperwork this whole time and kicking their ass in court in Utah and has gotten just troves of documents released already.
And now, do I have this right, Bob, that this is the first time a FOIA case has ever gone actually to trial?
That's what Jesse told me a couple of days ago as I was just finished writing this story.
He kind of gave it to me as an aside.
So I'll trust his legal judgment.
I'm not I did not investigate whether it was or not.
But I want to be surprised, you know, even if it's not the first one, it's very important just because of the fact the federal government's having to answer, you know, on a Freedom of Information Act.
And, you know, I'm familiar with Freedom of Information on my last book, the Clapper Memo about the top intel chief of the United States.
I went two hundred and excuse me.
Twenty two months on a FOIA request never got answered from a defense intelligence agency.
So I'm real familiar with FOIA.
I just don't have the deep pockets to battle it in court.
Right, right.
Well, I was actually reading a little bit about Jason Leopold, who now that's all he does is FOIA stuff and the art to it.
And apparently you could tell I could tell from the profile of him that it really took a lot of experience to figure out how to work the system of FOIA.
There is there's nothing straightforward about it at all.
Well, I've learned that it takes being a bulldog more than anything.
And, you know, my book had been out for more than a full year, about 18 months by the time I just finally dropped the pursuit of the information.
I mean, I already knew kind of the answer.
I just don't know everything they're covering up in the Clapper Memo.
But, you know, regarding that second article in the FBI, you know, what do they have the video?
I think they do.
Jesse shares some documents.
This is a black and white copy.
The real thing.
This is a yellow sticker, but FBI documents he shared with me.
This is one interesting little paragraph says on October 27th, 1995, a confidential source.
And then that source's name is redacted, as you can see here, the black boxes says a confidential source telephonically contacted special agent, again, redacted somebody at the FBI.
The source related that Dateline, an NBC television show, had been contacted by an unknown attorney representing a Los Angeles agent of the Federal Bureau of Investigation.
On behalf of the agent, the attorney offered to sell a copy of the surveillance tape recovered from Oklahoma City, which shows the activity outside of the Alfred P.
Murrow Federal Building just prior to the bomb blast.
You know, that's the you know, what's the phrase?
The the golden nugget.
That's the thing everybody's looking for.
That's what Jesse's looking for, because if we if the American public sees the video, the full length of the video before the bombing took place, it's going to change the entire they're going to know they've been lied to from everybody, from the FBI to Clinton administration and everybody involved in the cover up.
And, you know, I'm not a conspiracy theorist.
A lot of people.
This is pretty factual.
This isn't this isn't, you know, tinfoil hat crap.
Yeah.
By the way, in that clip that I sent you, did you get a chance to listen to that?
The Channel 4 News clip?
I did.
In fact, I lived in Norman, Oklahoma at the time of the bombing.
I had just dropped off my then five year old son at a preschool, walked back out to my car just after just after 9.02 a.m. and and heard the first reports on the radio on the main talk radio news channel in the city.
And I was glued to the TV for four days afterwards.
I took food and bottled water down to the rescue workers.
You know, I couldn't get beyond the corridor cordon, but, you know, I was real close to it.
And I watched the news reports, of course, talking with Jaina Davis, who was at the time a NBC affiliate reporter in Oklahoma City, an award winning reporter.
The author of that book, The Third Terrorist, which was a New York Times bestseller before it unceremoniously was seen to be removed from all channels of distribution.
You know, I'm real familiar.
A lot of her voice on some of that news there.
Yeah, a lot of a lot of things are were said on the local newscast that really make you wonder.
Well, now part of that.
Let me ask you this, Bob.
Part of what's reported in there is and I'm sorry, because I was actually distracted while I was replaying it.
I've heard it a hundred times.
I'm 90 percent sure their source is or one of their sources is an L.A. Times reporter who had had a chance to see it.
And I think they even referred to an L.A. Times story.
And I've never been able to track that down.
I've Googled the hell out of that.
I wonder if, you know, whether did did this story ever actually hit the paper in the L.A. Times?
Do you know who the L.A. Times reporter was who had eyeball seen this tape and and at least confirmed what other sources, I believe, police sources were telling Channel 4 there?
No, I have not seen the tape.
I can't.
I wanted to nail that one down for a long time, because that seems like, you know, obviously, a L.A. Times reporter walking into court and telling a judge, this is what I saw.
That's serious testimony right there.
If that could be made to happen.
Yeah.
And, you know, you'd think that reporters are credible sources, but any more.
Well, I mean, a judge would have to take that seriously if it was a reporter who said, yeah, my my federal source showed me this footage.
And I'm telling you what I saw.
That would be, you know, no joke.
And by the way, speaking of no joke, everybody again, if you go to Bob McCarty dot com and you look at this article, new OKC bombing trial set to begin again, the trial of this FOIA for give me the damn footage.
There's a perfect I played it on the radio before, but it's just four stars.
Excellent speech, an hour long speech, a video that he's embedded there.
There's YouTube of Jesse Trinidad telling his whole story.
And it's man, he is so impressive.
I just love Jesse.
And it's such a great speech.
Couldn't possibly have been done better of him telling his story and what all it has to do with the Oklahoma bombing.
And try to set aside some time to take a look at that again.
It's at Bob McCarty dot com.
And now, do you know, did NBC ever say why didn't they pay him the million dollars and get the footage?
They got a million dollars.
Yeah, they have a million dollars.
They called the cops on him and said, one of your guys is trying to sell us footage.
They called internal affairs or something like that.
Right.
Well, you're you're making the leap that the nationwide news networks, you know, the alphabet networks are working objectively.
Oh, I didn't mean to imply that, you know, because, you know, if you look at.
Look at the immigration stuff on the border right now.
The coverage always shows these little kids coming across the border as if it's 90 percent three year olds.
But in reality, it's 80 to 85 percent people 15 and older, mostly male.
So, you know, don't believe don't believe the news media at the national level.
There are some good ones.
You know, Cheryl Atkinson, she kind of bolted from CBS.
But as I learned in my last book, you know, ABC was hitting for the the government team.
They did seem to disregard reality.
In fact, by the way, I wonder about I actually never did get around to reading Jaina Davis's book, because when I talked to Jesse Trennan do or I'm sorry to J.D. Cash back when he said he had dismissed all of that stuff, all the so-called Arab connection.
The fact that Laurie Milroy latched on to it to try to spin the story with Judith Miller, that Ramzi Youssef wasn't really Ramzi Youssef, but was an imposter working for Saddam Hussein's mukbara and all of that, that that just completely put the lie to it.
And even I think Peter Lance, just like J.D. Cash, had tried so hard to track down Terry Nichols movements and footsteps in the Philippines and the rumors that he had met with Ramzi Youssef in the Philippines.
And none of that had ever held up.
So I mean, J.D. just said that was all BS.
It was it's all about the Nazis at Elohim City and all the Arab angle is wrong.
I just want to watch your response to that.
I disagree.
I trust Jaina Davis award winning investigative reporter.
She has the documents and bibliography in the back of the book to back it up.
Well, now, does she does she go into the thing about Nichols going to Cebu City in the Philippines and all of that?
Again, I haven't read the book, but yeah, yeah, she covers all those.
And, you know, I think a lot of people are trying to sell other books.
And it well, you know, I think, you know, Peter Lance is a pretty good reporter.
And and his take on it was never mind the so-called Iraq connection.
He knew that the Iraq connection was not, you know, was a fantasy.
James Woolsey tried to prove after 9-11 that Youssef's fingerprints didn't match and whatever.
He couldn't prove that because they did match.
He was Ramzi Youssef.
He wasn't an Iraqi mukbarat agent.
And that whole conspiracy theory, the Milroy conspiracy theory fell apart.
However, Lance was open to the idea that maybe when Nichols was in the Philippines that that did have something to do with learning how to cook the bomb and et cetera like that.
Although now in Nichols testimony since then and and he's opened up and talked with and given a deposition now and everything, he denies all of that, too, and says, no, no, no, I never did have anything.
He was basically just it looked like he was basically just trying to be out of the country while McVeigh was doing the worst of this stuff, you know?
Yeah, you know, could be.
But, you know, look at Hussein al-Husseini.
Remember that name?
Yeah.
He is the guy that Janey Davis pinpoints as John Doe number two.
And back on March 11th, 2011, he surfaced in Quincy, Massachusetts.
Oh, yeah.
She swears based on all her, you know, foot footwork there in Oklahoma City, you know, seeing where this Iraqi cell operated, where they live, the kind of businesses they ran.
But how well does she tie him to McVeigh?
And what does that have to do with Andre Strassmeier and the Nazis?
Nothing.
Not I don't believe is anything direct.
So and this has always been a puzzle to me, because I guess I always I never really bought the story in the first place.
And so, you know, I've been reading about this from as many sources as I can this whole time, really, since 95, I was in high school at the time.
And it's always been these two competing conspiracy theories, the Nazis at Elohim City or the the Arab guys in the brown pickup truck.
But it seemed like the brown pickup truck eventually traced to this kook out in Arizona.
Right.
The the the gold miner guy.
No, I actually don't don't remember specifics on that.
Anyway.
Yeah.
I mean, there's a million little details here, Bob, that we could if you you look at these, you know, the competing stories say, gosh, lost my train of thought.
It's all right.
You know what?
I've already kept you way over time here, too.
But I really appreciate your attention to this story and your attention to especially to Jesse's angle on it.
And, you know, I think this is, you know, could be a Pulitzer Prize win at work if you put it all together for us.
Head out to Utah and and write it all up.
I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for the prize, but let me do a crass pub.
Go ahead.
I've got two books.
You can find them at my website.
This one's about a Army Green Beret who was wrongfully accused, convicted and sentenced to prison at Fort Leavenworth for crimes he did not commit.
This one, if you believe that the polygraph is a good tool that actually detects telling lies, this one will prove different.
Oh, cool.
You must be friends with Doug Matchkey, right?
You know, Doug, I don't think that adjective would describe it because this this doesn't fall exactly in line with all of his beliefs.
I'm not an adversary.
We're we're just not friends.
Oh, I see.
Well, but anyway, the polygraph sure ain't a lie detector.
It's just a polygraph.
I think all reasonable gentlemen can agree on that.
Right, right.
All right.
Well, listen, thank you so much for your time.
I really do appreciate it, Bob.
You bet.
Thank you.
All right, everybody.
That is Bob McCarty.
The website is Bob McCarty dot com.
And these two great articles are did FBI agent try to sell missing OKC bombing video to NBC and new OKC bombing trial set to begin July 28th in Salt Lake City.
Again, Jesse Trinidou suing over the footage of the Oklahoma bombing.
And again, please page down and check out the great hour long speech by Jesse telling his story.
It's just about everything you need to know right there.
And we'll be right back.
Hey, I'll Scott Horton here for the Future Freedom, the monthly journal of the Future Freedom Foundation, edited by libertarian purist Sheldon Richman.
The Future Freedom brings you the best of our movement, featuring articles by Richman, Jacob Hornberger, James Bovard and many more.
The Future Freedom stands for peace and liberty and against our criminal world empire and Leviathan State.
Subscribe today.
It's just twenty five dollars per year for the back pocket size print edition.
Fifteen per year to read it online.
That's the Future Freedom at FFF dot org slash subscribe.
Peace and freedom.
Thank you.
You hate government.
One of them libertarian types.
Maybe you just can't stand the president.
Gun grabbers are warmongers.
Me, too.
That's why I invented Liberty Stickers dot com.
Well, Rick owns it now and I didn't make up all of them.
But still, if you're driving around, I want to tell everyone else how wrong their politics are.
There's only one place to go.
Liberty Stickers dot com has got your bumper covered.
Left, right.
Libertarian empire.
Police state founders quote central banking.
Yes.
Bumper stickers about central banking.
Lots of them.
And well, everything that matters.
Liberty Stickers dot com.
Everyone else's stickers suck.