06/16/14 – Daniel McAdams – The Scott Horton Show

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All right.
Next up is Dan McAdams.
He's the director of the Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity.
Formerly was Ron Paul's chief foreign policy advisor for years in his congressional office there.
To his great credit, it's Daniel McAdams.
Welcome back to the show, Dan.
How are you doing?
Thanks, Scott.
I'm doing great.
Great to be with you.
Great, great.
Very happy to have you here.
And, you know, it seems like everybody's attention is on Syria and Iraq, which is good and important.
However, I bet things in Ukraine did not stop happening just because I wasn't reading about it.
But I bet that you have been staying current and keeping up to date on the results of America's coup in Ukraine back in February and the new coup and then sort of pseudo elected government's efforts to clamp down and extend their monopoly state power in eastern Ukraine.
So I guess go ahead and give us the bad news and I'll try to come up with some follow up questions as you talk.
It's true.
You know, everyone is is obsessed with what's going on in Iraq.
I have to confess, too, because I just love the possibility of the neocons getting a black eye.
But as you know, they're so slippery and slithery that they're still coming out on top.
You still see every one of the talk shows featuring the same guys that messed the thing up.
You have Tony Blair saying, hey, it wasn't my fault.
Don't blame me.
So the virtues of shamelessness.
I mean, there's really something to that.
I try to talk about a guy who took it to the bank, too.
You know, I mean, it's disgusting.
But but as you say, as as our attention is focused on on Iraq and some really unprecedented things that are happening there, you know, things go on as they had in Ukraine and probably even amped up a little bit because the tension is elsewhere.
I've been watching some YouTube videos today of some pretty serious Kiev shelling in Slavyansk and in residential areas.
You can see, you know, a lot of apartment blocks and then you see the big smoke.
You know, these days everyone has got a camera.
Everyone's got a cell phone that takes video.
So there's no there's no end to it.
It seems like the only people that aren't interested and aren't paying attention is the State Department, you know, to all these videos.
It's pretty easy to find them.
Apparently, an old Orthodox church was blown up in some of the shelling today.
So it has it has increased.
It has continued.
If you remember last week, Poroshenko, the new elected president, supposedly elected president, said, oh, he's going to wrap things up by the end of last week and it'll all be done and there'll be peace and ceasefire.
And and now he's saying, well, maybe by the end of this week he'll be done.
And meanwhile, he keeps ratcheting it up, ratcheting up the violence.
You have streams of people leaving the country.
And you also have this sort of disturbing trend that no one has really talked too much about, but the the push for humanitarian corridors.
And it does sound good on the surface.
And Poroshenko has said, you know, he's he's theoretically open to the idea of humanitarian corridors.
However, if you remember back to Kosovo, when the back in 98, 99, when the Macedonian President Grigorov, I think his name was, recommended humanitarian quarters for Kosovo, he was attacked by NATO for a sort of backdoor ethnic cleansing.
So you can almost imagine if they do get these corridors up and running, you can see kind of a quiet ethnic cleansing of Russian speakers and ethnic Russians, particularly if you combine that with two very important events that came to the fore this week.
Our old friend Yats, you remember him, Vicky Newland's friend, the prime minister of Ukraine, Yatsenyuk, he called the people in the east who are fighting for their autonomy, quote, subhumans, you know, which we remember the intermention, you know, the Nazis used, which was which was very controversial.
And it's a way of, you know, you demonize your enemies before you slaughter them.
And also something that came out today, which is quite interesting.
It was in the Kyiv Post, which is no friend of Russia, as you know.
But apparently the land the Ukraine's land agency has offered to give free land to any soldiers from the West to go to the east and start fighting.
So this is this is I mean, I hate to bring to break this too far, but this is sort of a Lebensraum kind of idea that, you know, you'll get free land in the east if you help us kick all the people out of the east.
So it is.
I know that was a mouthful, Scott, but that's in a nutshell, I guess.
Can you imagine if this was happening?
Well, it's hard to imagine anywhere in the world where one side or another isn't America's proclaimed business or something like that.
But anyway, if you could imagine a situation where there's any kind of dispute like this and it's not America's fight, what they would have to say about it, or maybe, you know, they're on the side of the people who are losing.
I mean, I guess all we have to do is rewind to last fall, what they had to say about the government daring to hold on the elected government in Kyiv, daring to hold on to power against a violent Nazi backed push against them.
But yeah, and how they were how they were screaming that, you know, we saw the cops that were out there trying to trying to put an end to this protest in the Maidan.
They didn't even have weapons yet.
The U.S. was still screaming at them.
Don't do anything.
You better not raise use violence against these peaceful protesters.
And meanwhile, you and I are watching videos of these cops being burned alive.
And, you know, we don't have any great affection for cops, but, you know, you do have to be kind of ticked off at a government who sends cops out in a situation like this while they're sitting in their offices and these guys are getting burned alive.
They don't have any kind of protection at all.
So it's there's a lot to be infuriated about with the previous government.
But certainly we talk about double standards here.
These you know, this current regime is showing people showing communities the U.S. is saying absolutely nothing.
Yeah, it's crazy.
And look, I mean, I don't know who all was there in the Maidan.
I'm sure it was everybody and their grandmothers, too, and with a lot of peaceful motives and whatever.
But the push was done by the Americans and the Germans who threatened to put sanctions on every last billionaire in the Party of Regions if they didn't forsake their guy.
So they forsook him and on the ground by real, legit, no fooling Hitler loving Nazis from these Fubota and right sector parties that even The New York Times narrated.
There they go, seizing all the government buildings and chasing the government out of town.
So, you know, it's pretty hard to see that as like a fight between liberty and the state.
It's much more like, yeah, a bunch of Nazis seize the state.
I'm really impressed.
You know, what's what's really amazing is this.
I mean, I hate this.
I mean, I don't hate to say this.
I love to say this.
What am I saying?
The absolute spinelessness of Europe and the European Union.
You know, you had Sikorsky, the Polish foreign minister, the German foreign minister, I believe, and one or two other people who crafted this deal on the night of what was it, February 21st or something like this, where you would have sort of a power sharing deal.
You'd have a climb down, a back down.
It was a compromise.
Early elections.
The Yanukovych government agreed to all of it.
Basically, they went to bed and everything was sealed.
The next morning, aha, that's when the coup took place.
You know, so, you know, it seems to me as if the U.S. knew all along this is what it was launching.
And I think Victoria Nuland told us in no uncertain terms that that's what she had in mind for the EU.
But I mean, wouldn't you, if you had spent all that time negotiating this deal, only to have the U.S. just bulldoze over you without even, you know, giving you the finger on the way by?
I mean, wouldn't you be a little bit irritated?
But they're so, especially people like Sikorsky, are so eager to suck up to the U.S. neocons that they even show any of their sort of pride aside.
Now, Dan, when Yats, as Victoria Nuland calls him, Yatsenyuk, the new prime minister here in the Putsch government, when he says that, oh, yeah, we're fighting against these subhumans, meaning the Russian speakers or the ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine.
Can you tell me the context of that?
Was it kind of an open mic moment?
Was it a set up open mic moment, a deliberate provocation by him?
Did he go and give a speech and denounce them for their lack of humanity?
Because, you know, there was the leaked phone call of Timoshenko, the gas princess, basically saying, yeah, let's nuke them all.
Not that she meant it literally, but how much she hated everyone in the east.
Basically, it sounded like relinquishing any pretense of her right to rule over them, which seemed like really a dumb mistake on her part.
But then again, if they were trying to make things worse and precipitate more of a civil war, more of a humanitarian crisis and ethnic cleansing situation, like you're saying, then I guess it would make sense for her and Yatsenyuk to go ahead and say, you know, the people of the east are the enemy rather than, you know, people we need to compromise with in our democracy.
And now you can see that I've asked this question all the way up into the break.
I'm sorry, Dan, the music's playing.
The music's playing and we gotta go to break.
Oh, that was me, not you.
I thought it was me interrupting me.
I thought it was you interrupting me.
It was me interrupting me.
We'll be back in a goddang minute.
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We should take nothing for granted.
All right you guys, welcome back to the show.
I'm Scott Horton, this is my show.
And man, I suck at broadcasting.
I'm sorry, I don't got any hard breaks and bumper music and never mind.
Anyway, so when we were going out to break, I was trying to ask Dan McAdams of the Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity about whether he thinks that Yatsenuk, America's sock puppet prime minister of Ukraine, what was the, I was asked what was the context of him denouncing the pro-Russian East as being made up of subhumans and whether he thought maybe that was a deliberate provocation in order to help divide the population, help precipitate the civil war and that ethnic cleansing that seems to be at the root of part of the strategy here.
Yeah, well the statement itself appeared on the Ukrainian embassy in the U.S., so it was an official source.
And it's kind of interesting, someone must have tipped them off because they've changed the word now just today, this went up there yesterday, they changed it today to inhuman rather than subhuman, but it certainly was originally subhuman and people have screenshots.
What he says is the people have been killed by invaders and sponsored by subhumans.
First we'll commemorate the heroes by wiping out those who killed them and then by cleaning our land from the evil, which sounds pretty spooky.
Yeah, well, so what is the state of the rebellion?
How many different countries have their, basically their local government buildings occupied by secessionists or those who are resisting the so-called authority of the Kiev government?
Well supposedly Mariupol was taken back by the Kiev authorities and you know I don't know the exact situation on the ground right now as to who's controlling who.
I know that there have been some pretty serious attacks on Russian embassies and consulates, including I think right now there's a standoff outside the Russian consulate in Odessa, which is in recent memory a place of real conflict.
But you know yesterday there was a huge riot outside the Russian embassy in Kiev where the flag was taken down and the Ukrainian flag was raised.
They threw all kinds of paint bombs and things at the embassy, smoke bombs inside the embassy.
And now I mean this is just this is just you know what the government in Kiev always does.
It says actually it was a Russian suit, it did it to themselves.
It was just a provocation that Russians were the ones out there attacking their own embassy, overturning their own cars and just to make us look bad.
If you remember that's exactly what they said about Odessa when all those people were burned to death.
They said oh they did it to themselves and when the missile went through the administration building in Lugansk they said oh these guys shot themselves.
So they always say the same things when these things happen.
Hardly believable.
So when it comes to the military attack, I mean it does seem as horrible as the consequences of it have been for the people on the ground there.
It seems like a pretty ineffectual assault right?
I mean are they any closer than they ever have been to you know really having you know getting some kind of surrender out of the secessionists at large and an end of the resistance to their authority here?
A real extension of their monopoly power?
Because it sure doesn't seem like it.
Slaughter a few people here, an air attack there.
Well you made a great point Scott.
If what they're trying to do is drive these people further away then they're doing a heck of a good job of it.
If they're actually trying to keep the country together, this is the you know dropping you know shooting mortars into apartment buildings is not the way to have people develop an affectionate attitude toward the Kiev government.
Well you know attitude aside it's possible to win a military victory by crushing your opponents too and forcing a surrender.
Not that I'm saying that would be the right thing to do.
No you're right.
But honestly it doesn't seem like they're trying to do that either.
They're just bombing people kind of at random like Orwell.
Rocket bomb lands in the neighborhood every once in a while.
Yeah well the thing is that the problem that the U.S. government and the great foreign policy experts here in the west refuse to admit, and it's just simply basically true, they don't have the hearts and minds on the ground.
It's not just a few Russian-backed people who are coming out there and terrorizing everyone.
We saw the millions of people who are lined up to vote to secede.
And it's the same thing that we saw in Syria.
Regardless of how we feel about Assad, he's genuinely popular.
Every opinion poll, every vote, there are millions of people that voted for him.
There are millions of people in eastern Ukraine who want nothing to do with Kiev.
And so it's difficult to win a military victory when you simply don't have the support of the people.
And maybe that's why you have to look toward ethnic cleansing to get rid of these people.
And who knows maybe that's what they're doing.
Yeah well I mean when you talk about the humanitarian crisis, it doesn't take much to keep one going and to keep rashing it up.
And then as you said, a humanitarian corridor is the kind of thing that, you know, the Americans might be right if they weren't, you know, if it wasn't their guy's plan.
They might be right to criticize that as sort of a backdoor way of, you know, in the short term it makes perfect sense for civilian refugees to flee a war zone or whatever.
But how are they ever going to come back again?
And aren't they ultimately just, you know, ceding that territory then?
Kind of a thing.
I could see that.
It's sort of like they used to talk about building a subway between the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.
And I always thought, well, yeah, that would be great if you assume any kind of independence and sovereignty for Palestine.
Otherwise, it's just a great way for the Israelis to put all the Palestinians on the West Bank on a railroad car to the Gaza prison, you know.
Yeah, no, that's true.
It's true.
So it's very, it's very tricky, you know.
And the other thing you probably saw this past week was this this claim that Kiev made that the U.S. government immediately jumped on that there's a column of Russian tanks.
Yeah, I was going to ask you about that.
Yeah.
Crossing the border into Ukraine.
And of course, they provided no evidence.
The videos that we saw showed three pretty crappy T-64s, which is an old model of tank that's not used by the Russians anymore.
And the U.S. and the State Department said, well, these are definitely Russian tanks because there are no tanks from the Kiev government operating in the area.
Well, just a joke.
What are they talking about?
You know, have they been sleeping through this whole assault on eastern Ukraine?
So, you know, once again, they provided no evidence.
It was just the headline went out, you know, Drudge and everyone else picked it up.
Column of Russian tanks enters Ukraine.
It sounds ominous.
But and as I wrote a piece last week, hey, that's fine.
Maybe they're telling the truth this time.
But we've been burned so many times before.
They need to provide us some evidence.
And they haven't.
Yeah, exactly.
I look at pictures of these tanks and they've got Ukrainian flags on them.
So, you know, I just you're the credibility is shot, especially as we look what's happening with Iraq this week.
It just reminds us of how the government lies to us in every way, shape or form, you know, constantly.
And, you know, I can understand why decent people would want to think that, OK, look, if they told me ten lies before, the next thing's got to be true because there's got to be a limit to their dishonesty.
Right.
Like good people just want to assume and figure out a way that it must be for good somehow.
I guess war is good for the economy.
They just rationalize it some way.
But no, it's all lies.
It's ridiculous.
Like, oh, yeah, they send in three tanks.
They're not invading, but they just want to give you an excuse to ratchet up your support for the Nazis.
Oh, OK.
Yeah, that makes perfect sense.
As I said, if this is the big Russian invasion, then there really is no Russian threat because of all they can muster.
Yeah.
Three crappy tanks.
Forget it.
Yeah.
This is the rise of the new Soviet Union.
I'm shaking in my boots.
All right.
Well, so now let me ask you about.
Well, OK, first of all.
Well, a couple things I'll ask you at once in the chat room.
Somebody asked, is it true that the Kiev government was caught using chemical weapons in the east?
I hadn't heard that.
I don't know if you have.
But then also, I would ask you to please talk about the right sector and the Svoboda militias, the neo-Nazis or maybe just plain old Nazis that helped with the putsch back in February.
What they're doing nowadays, because I sure would like to know.
Sure.
Well, on the first one, you know, we've seen videos of what looks like white phosphorus.
Oh, and talk real fast.
We're almost out of time.
OK.
Being fired in Slovyansk area.
The Russians have tried to complain to the U.N.
Of course, the U.S. is blocking it.
It looks very serious.
The second one, the right sector and these fascist groups or neo-fascist groups have been subsumed into this National Guard because the regular Ukrainian army has proven itself ineffective.
It doesn't have the stomach to fight against its own citizens.
But the right sector types have no problem doing this.
And so they are they're the ones that are in the National Guard.
They're the ones that are that are moving on the east in the most aggressive way.
The stormtroopers.
And yet they're still just, you know, basically street brawler, you know, essay types, not real military forces that can fight in a real military capacity.
Right.
Well, you're probably right.
I don't have any evidence, but I know a special ops guy that I talked to once said that these guys had been trained by the CIA for quite some time.
And the S.A.S.
Who knows?
Maybe the guy was just janking my chain.
But I've seen some pictures of them with trainers that look like that look like British with British flags behind them.
So maybe they have been getting some some instruction.
Right.
Yeah.
I wonder about that.
You know, there was a Stephen Cohen, the husband of Katrina Vanden Heuvel from the nation there.
He's been really good on this, of course, all along.
And there's actually I think I'm 90 percent sure, Dan, it was he who is interviewing a guy in the nation about 70 years of American support for Ukrainian Nazis ever since the end of the Second World War versus anti-communist forces, but then never stopping.
But anyway, now the beat's playing and we got to go.
Thank you so much for your time.
Coming back on the show, Dan.
Thanks, Scott.
Take care.
That's Daniel McAdams, everybody.
Director of the Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity.
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