02/04/14 – M.J. Rosenberg – The Scott Horton Show

Alright y'all, welcome back to the show.
I'm Scott Wharton, this is my show, the Scott Wharton Show.
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Less war improves mental health of soldiers.
Hmm, so it was the wars that were the problem with their mental health there.
That makes sense, you know, now that I think about it.
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Alright, our first guest on the show today is our good friend MJ Rosenberg.
And he writes mostly, I think, at Huffington Post.
And also at MJ, spell it out, jrosenberg.com.
Welcome back to the show, how are you doing?
Okay Scott, how are you doing?
I'm doing great, appreciate you joining us here today.
Yeah, I'm really in a good mood today, so you got me on a good day.
Okay, well why are you in such a good mood?
We'll start with that.
Well, because the New York Times today, you know, on the front page of their website, had the news that AIPAC, the Israel lobby, is in some serious trouble and has been losing, you know, one battle after another.
And although I've known it and reported about that and everything, it really matters when it's in the New York Times.
And that, I mean, it also means that it is really happening on this issue because the New York Times tends to be scared to write anything about this stuff.
And here it is, on the front page of the blog, AIPAC in trouble.
So I'm happy.
And that's in the world section or the national?
Because I didn't see it.
I'm looking for it now.
Yeah, if you have it on the physical newspaper, it's on page four.
And it's on the website, it's on page one.
Oh, okay.
But it's big news.
Yeah, no, that's great.
Now, here's the thing about that.
A lot of people never heard of AIPAC before.
AI-PAC, they don't even know what to call it.
What the hell is an AIPAC anyway, MJ?
Well, AIPAC is another way of saying the Israel lobby or the Jewish lobby.
Jewish lobby isn't very accurate, but Israel lobby.
American-Israel Public Affairs Committee is the – when we talk about the lobby, it's the only actually registered lobby for Israel in the United States.
And we talk about Congress being led around by the nose by the lobby.
We're talking about AIPAC.
And the other good news that happened on Sunday was that, miracle of miracles, Hillary Clinton came out in support of Iran negotiations despite AIPAC's vehement opposition.
What was very amusing about it and shows the power of AIPAC is she dropped the news that she's supporting Obama's negotiations during the Super Bowl, hoping that nobody would see it, I guess.
So it was just very strange.
Yeah, that's interesting, the politics.
I noticed that Rand Paul did the same thing.
He came out against the sanctions after it was already too late, and Harry Reid had already announced he wasn't going to schedule them anyway.
So they both want to be able to say, no, I supported the president on that, so that's good that they both seem to think that it's going to happen.
But then, yeah, it's also interesting that they both weighed in.
They didn't want to come out against the sanctions in support of the president.
Too bad, because that might anger the lobby.
Oh, that's the only reason.
The lobby's the only people who are against these negotiations.
There's nobody else.
It's just them.
Oh, yeah, actually, the lobby's against it.
The Saudis are against the negotiations.
And the crazed militants in Iran who are against the current president, they're also against these negotiations.
But that's it.
But the only one that matters of the three is AIPAC.
So that's why front page news and the headline says, potent pro-Israel group finds its momentum blunted.
Okay, and so they've had a string of losses, too, because when you say they're the only ones pushing for these sanctions now, you could say the same thing about pushing for the conflict with Syria last summer that thankfully didn't happen.
But I was searching in vain for even word.
I guess, well, no, I mean, I saw on the news that Raytheon stock was up on the anticipation of the crisis breaking out.
But I never saw, I don't think, anything about the arms manufacturers themselves really pushing for the conflict.
I'm not trying to acquit them, but I'm just saying, as far as all the media at the time, all I could tell was there was Obama and then there was the Israel lobby who wanted that war and nobody else all the way to San Diego.
Yeah, and Netanyahu himself, you know, who's always just screaming and hollering.
And they're really getting at it.
I mean, they're really, the Netanyahu government is really getting nervous.
I think, you know, I don't want to be too optimistic because this administration always disappoints me when I'm optimistic.
But it appears right now that Obama and Kerry have decided that they might as well just take on the lobby.
I mean, this Iran thing they really want to do.
And I think they're saying, well, once we're battling them on that, we might as well battle them on Israel-Palestine, too.
And Kerry is supposedly, according to Tom Friedman, who obviously has great sources and a lot of other reporters, the administration is about to lay its own peace plan for Israel-Palestine on the table.
And the Israelis are pretty nervous about that, too.
So maybe it's a new day, but I don't like to predict things like that because they never turn out.
Yeah, well, you know, I think it certainly seems like, as you wrote in your article, what it took for Obama to win on the question of the sanctions was, even really before the State of the Union, was he made it clear that, look, I'll veto this.
And look, I don't appreciate it.
This is serious.
And these sanctions, I don't care if you say that you're just trying to help.
It doesn't help.
So back off.
And they backed off.
That's pretty good for Barack Obama to tell anybody to back off when they're trying to prevent him from doing something right.
I've never heard of such a thing.
So, I mean, that really is great.
And I sure would like to see him keep that attitude up through whatever end negotiation they come up with, since the Iranian nuclear program isn't a threat anyway.
I don't care what's in the negotiation, as long as the Americans aren't mad anymore at the end of it.
Their fake claims are satisfied, or what have you.
But I wonder if you think that they're that serious about the Palestine thing.
Because it seems to me, I mean, look, you're dealing with Benjamin Netanyahu.
And they say, listen, we're never selling you another airplane, and we're never giving you another dollar out of Scott Horton's paycheck ever again, pal.
Unless you give up the West Bank.
Did I make myself clear, pig?
Then maybe they could end the settlements.
But short of that, he's just going to say, oh yeah, sure, whatever you say, Bill Clinton, and then not do it.
I assume the same thing.
It's just that I've never seen any Secretary of State as determined as Kerry is about this.
I mean, he really seems to have made this.
Look, to me, it looks like he's wasting his time.
And he's got to know more than we know, right?
I mean, obviously Netanyahu is not going to agree to anything, because Netanyahu wants to keep everything, and wants to keep the Palestinians subjugated forever.
That's what gives his life meaning.
But Kerry knows that, too.
And yet he keeps going over there, he keeps persevering.
Why persevere on this?
Who are you trying to impress unless you think you're going to come up with something?
You know what I mean?
I never could figure that out from the start of this.
As soon as he became the Secretary of State, I couldn't figure out what he means by doing this.
Because think of the strong arm that you would have to really use to get Netanyahu to go along.
I mean, nothing short of a real threat is going to do it.
Of course, you know, it's only in this context that the obvious strong arm is never mentioned, which is that we provide more aid to Israel by far than to any other country.
And if we threaten to cut it off, they will be out of the West Bank on whatever day we tell them to be out of the West Bank.
I mean, that is in fact true.
Look, the thing is, the Israelis have no cards to play against the United States.
I mean, especially when the United States presents a plan, as they're presenting, in which, according to the press reports, in which the areas that they pull out of, and the borders with Jordan and all the borders that they're so afraid of having open to the whole Arab world, the borders would be patrolled by NATO.
I mean, they're talking about a security plan that's better than they got now.
So if the United States, if a president says, look, this is what we're doing, and this is, we're doing this for our national interest, it also happens to be good for your national interest, and by the way, we give you $3.5 billion a year, we vote with you in the UN all the time, and make ourselves look like idiots.
This is what you're going to do.
You know, the only president who ever did that in American history was Eisenhower in 1956.
He did it.
And as you say, Obama's just whooped them.
Well, I guess Obama didn't whoop them, the American people whooped them on Syria, but Obama whooped them on Iran, so they're not really in much position to object now.
Especially, you know, it's amazing, in the State of the Union Address, the whole thing was all about, you know, basically the president saying he's going to exert his power, whatever, he's not worried about Congress, he's going to do it.
But he only issued one veto threat, and the only veto threat was, he said, if you send me AIPAC's, he didn't say AIPAC's, but if you send me AIPAC's sanctions bill, I will veto it.
He's like, you know, he was like throwing down the gauntlet.
He wasn't, like, finessing the issue.
He said it unambiguously.
So it seems like he's, yeah, like he's serious.
And he doesn't care that they're mad.
Geez, who are they going to go to, the Chinese?
I mean, it's like, it really is, it's, and I think it might start, also, the other, another factor, which Kerry, again, where Kerry demonstrated how serious he is, he mentioned the boycott movement.
He said to, he made a statement, he said, well, the Israelis have to recognize that there's this boycott movement going on all around the world, and if they want to guarantee their own future, they better, you know, play ball here.
And, oh my God, an American Secretary of State uses the threat of boycott?
He didn't say he was for it.
But just mentioning it, and the Israelis, they went ballistic, just because he mentioned it.
You know what I wonder?
Do you think that, or you may even know the answer to this question, but at least, do you suspect that Benjamin Netanyahu is a racist?
Because I kind of get the idea that Obama gets the idea that Netanyahu thinks that he's nothing but a something-something, and how, if I was Obama, my reaction to that would be, oh yeah?
We'll see, you know, who's the big man around here when he's the President of the United States and Netanyahu is simply the Prime Minister of tiny little Israel.
Well, I'll tell you one thing, if he isn't a racist, he certainly acted like one when he disrespected, in his very first meeting when he came to Washington and he lectured, you know, they always have that thing where afterwards they do that little press conference and they sit there in the chairs in front of the fireplace, and every foreign leader is going to be respectful to the President of the United States.
He lectured Obama like he was a kid.
Right, like he was the butler.
Wait, wait, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I've got to stop you.
We've got to take this break, but hold on right there, it's a short break.
We'll be right back, everybody, with the great MJ Rosenberg from MJRosenberg.com.
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I'm about to have a nervous breakdown.
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All right, y'all, welcome back to the show.
I'm Scott Horton.
This is my show, The Scott Horton Show.
And I'm talking with MJ Rosenberg.
His website is MJ, like Homer J. Simpson, J-A-Y, MJRosenberg.com.
And he also writes for the Huffington Post.
I'm stalling for time as I look for the Huffington tab here.
Here it is.
Iran, the weak Obama took down the lobby.
Yeah, I like that.
And I hate siding with Obama on anything, but I sure side with him on this.
And now, oh, where we left off was we were talking about the personal conflict, which, you know, probably I think has a lot to do with this, and I'm very thankful for, between the president and the prime minister.
As Obama was overheard talking with Sarkozy saying, you think you hate him?
I got to deal with him every day.
And I can just imagine, Mr. President, Prime Minister Netanyahu on line three.
Oh, Christ, not again.
You know?
I would hate my life.
And, you know, he says every day.
How many world leaders do you have to deal with every day?
Is there any other?
I mean, Israel has 7 million people.
There are countries, obviously, that have more than a billion people.
I don't think he deals with India.
I don't think he thinks about India, like, once a week.
I don't think he thinks about India, let alone worry about Israel continuously.
And the reason is the lobby.
It's the lobby.
And, you know, no other foreign country has a lobby like this.
It's a unique organization.
Every other country in the world, and this would include even the Brits during World War II.
I mean, when they were in World War II and they wanted us to get in World War II with them, they didn't have a lobby.
All other countries have are foreign agents who they pay.
And the reason that Israel didn't set it up that way is if you have a foreign agent representing you, or a whole law firm of foreign agents representing you, you have to register under something called the Foreign Agents Registration Act.
And that means every single dealing you have with members of Congress or anything else has to be sent to the Justice Department for clearance.
You cannot just go up to Capitol Hill and buy up senators.
Also, for other foreign countries, because of that act, it's called FARA, are not allowed, it is against the law for them to have any involvement in politics at all, which is why you don't ever hear that the French lobby is involved in some, you know, in some issue in some congressional race in Iowa.
They set up AIPAC differently so it would, even though it's directed, as we all know, by the Israeli government, it's a lobby of Americans.
So therefore, by doing this very clever thing of being an organization of 100,000 people and tons of money, all of whom are Americans, they are entitled by law to use their American rights to get involved in U.S. politics on behalf of a foreign government.
Sounds complicated, but it's a big deal.
The loophole is basically, you just have to pretend that you really, really think there's no difference whatsoever between Israel's interests and America's on any issue.
Exactly.
That's it.
And we never, Joe Biden, he says it all the time.
Joe Biden's the only politician who's dumb enough to say it all the time.
He says, there must be no daylight, no daylight.
I always tell you this because he says it twice.
There must be no daylight, no daylight between Israel's policies and U.S. policies.
They'd never say that about, they wouldn't say that about Canada.
They wouldn't say that about any country.
It's so, you know, it's so antithetical toward any country's independence.
Israel obviously doesn't feel that way about the United States.
Yeah, right, definitely not.
Yeah, they don't care what our policies are.
They're going to do what they're going to do.
They fight us on everything.
But we must have no daylight, no daylight between us and Netanyahu.
But you're absolutely right, though.
I think that Obama, it's a very important thing is that Obama, Obama hates Netanyahu.
On the other hand, politicians, I was, I was at the White House and it was in 1997 for some event.
And it was, and there was a small crowd afterwards that was hanging around.
And I talked to Hillary Clinton.
She was the first lady then.
Oh, my God, she hates him so much.
She really hated him because, I don't know if you remember, during the Monica Lewinsky thing, Netanyahu, who was prime minister then as he is now, but he wasn't, hasn't been the whole time, he came on a visit to the United States and before he went to see Obama, he went to see Newt Gingrich to help plot Obama's downfall.
Wait, wait, wait, Clinton you mean?
I mean, Clinton, I'm sorry, Clinton.
And was heard, and was making jokes with Gingrich about Clinton's cigar and Monica Lewinsky and all that smutty stuff.
It all got back to Hillary.
She hates his guts.
But you know what?
She's, I don't see how that's motivating her.
Though it might, it might be.
Who knows?
It really helps that he's such, that Netanyahu is such an utterly charmless and obnoxious guy.
He's also is essentially a Republican because, you know, he grew up in the United States.
He's basically, he's almost as American as we are.
He's spent his whole life here.
He even changed his name in the United States to have a more American sounding name, but then they persuaded him to go back and become prime minister.
But he's so, he has American sensibilities to the extent that he is a right-wing Republican.
So the racism that you talked about, gee, that sort of goes with that package, doesn't it?
Yeah.
Yeah, I think so.
You know, well, there was a story, I don't know if this is really true, but they say that Robert Gates, back in, was it in the Reagan years or the Bush senior years, told Brent Scowcroft, that Netanyahu guy, this is the first time he ever came to the White House, and Gates tried to get him on the ban list, that he should never be allowed back in the White House again.
And they never said exactly what it was, if they caught him rifling through somebody's desk or what.
I mean, gee, that's just amazing.
What must have been going on there for Robert Gates of all tools to react that way, you know?
Well, that only would have, that was in the first Bush presidency?
I'm trying to remember, I think it actually may have been during Reagan.
That was the, that was, here, I can Google it real quick.
It's one of the stories coming out of Robert Gates' book.
Well, let's see, it was Scowcroft was the one he went to, so I think it was during Bush senior, because Scowcroft was the national security advisor then.
Right, okay.
No, I think the, you know, the foreign policy team around the first Bush, they tended to be much more of the, more realistic, in contrast to being, like, crazed imperialists like George W. Bush, too.
I mean, so, yeah, Scowcroft was against the second Iraq war.
He wrote an op-ed in the New York Times saying it.
Supposedly, he was speaking for the first President Bush.
Oh, yeah, well, look, yeah, I mean, yeah, it was called Don't Attack Saddam, and it was widely considered to be a message from the father.
Right, from the father.
You're talking about some serious, some serious psychopaths here, where that's the way, the only way a father can communicate with his son is to have his best friend write an op-ed in the Times.
Anyway, the son ignored it.
I think Baker tried to stop him, too.
Yeah, I mean, it's, but, I don't know, but right now, things seem to be, you know, seem to be changing.
You know, if we're not going to change our Middle East policy in the second term of a Democratic president, there's no chance ever.
Because, so what, there's two, there's three years left of this term.
That's it.
A new president's going to come in, of course, and start fresh, which means start sucking up to Netanyahu all over again.
Right.
Hey, you know, here's the thing, too.
You know what?
It's a small reason to add to the discussion to be optimistic here.
It always was puzzling to me why Obama went to Cairo and made such a big deal about Israel-Palestine in the first place.
That's a hell of a way to start off your presidency with a challenge like that and then fail at it.
And then, you know, he still says, oh, I only give it a 50-50 chance and whatever.
You know, so I don't really know, you know, how hard he really wants to think.
He was so pissed off by the fact that the Israelis screwed him after that speech.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, that's the thing, is he has nothing to lose, and he does have all the power in the world.
Right.
Could be.
I mean, let him use it for good for a change.
I mean, and on foreign policy, a president does have more latitude than domestic policy.
We see how much he can do on health care.
Even if he decided tomorrow that he wants to, you know, have single payer, like Canadians or whatever, can't do it.
You can't.
I mean, I think on foreign policy, it's like you can get away with a lot more.
Well, that's why presidents love wars so much, because it makes them the center of all attention instead of legislators.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, presidents love the freedom to go to war.
Well, you know, but the flip side of that is they can negotiate, too, when they want to.
And when they realize that if they ever got involved in a war with Iran, we would be involved in that war for 20 years, it would never end.
It would never end.
That's not the kind of war they want.
Yeah.
Well, now, so after Obama's few victories, well, the people and Obama's victories against AIPAC here, have they really taken it on the chin bad?
Do you think their bluff is called and now we can rank them back below the NRA and the AARP or don't count them out yet?
Oh, yeah.
Definitely don't count them out yet.
I mean, look, the front-runner for the Democratic nomination and probably the front-runner for president is Hillary Clinton, and gosh, I wish I could get the guy's name.
Her biggest funder is this Israeli guy who invented Power Rangers.
Oh, Haim Saban, the guy behind the Brookings Institution.
Yeah, he owns the Brookings Institute.
I love that.
He used to be an independent think tank, and then Haim Saban bought it, and now it's the Haim Saban Brookings Institute.
But he is her biggest backer.
I mean, he plays the Sheldon Adelson role for Hillary.
So I'm not sure that we can say that.
Matt, wait.
We can't say that AIPAC is licked.
We can just say that it's in the process of being licked.
I mean, hey, that's something.
Well, you know, the thing of it is, too, is it used to be nobody could talk about this at all, but now it's okay to talk about this.
I got an MJL vouch for me.
I'm no anti-Semite.
I just think this is real, and it's important to talk about.
So what?
MJ only lost his job for talking about it.
But, you know, I wouldn't recommend anybody who worries about job security talking too much about this.
I mean, that's a topic for another day, is about how they operate.
Well, but it's getting better.
It's getting better.
It is getting better.
I mean, you know, and I found that, you know.
You're great.
Thanks, MJ.
We're out of time.
Appreciate it.
Love you.
Okay.