Libertarian activist Adam Kokesh discusses his unexpected release from jail ahead of his sentencing in January, and why he pleaded guilty to charges – stemming from his infamous Youtube clip in defense of Second Amendment rights – that could get him 7 1/2 years in prison.
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All right, y'all, welcome back to the show.
I'm Scott Horton.
We're joined on the phone by Adam Kokesh from Adam vs. the Man.
Hey, Adam, how's it going?
Outstanding.
Thanks for having me on today, Scott.
I appreciate it.
Hey, I'm happy to have you on.
Hey, I'm happy to have you on.
Welcome back to Relative Freedom.
Yeah, exactly.
How was your trip?
Well, it was four months in state custody, living off the taxpayer, and it was certainly an interesting, harrowing experience.
It was a distinct challenge, and as of my status hearing from yesterday, I was fully expecting to go back to jail for an absolute minimum of eight weeks pending sentencing.
I was very fortunate to be released, and I have to go back on January 17th for sentencing, but I'm just grateful to be able to talk to people like you freely and be able to communicate again.
Yeah, well, it's certainly good to know that you're out and safe and sound in one piece and breathing fresh air and all that.
So, you've pleaded guilty, and you're awaiting sentencing now.
I guess they had been holding you without bail, but can you tell us which charges you've pleaded to?
Just to clear the air, obviously nobody even thinks this or where, but it's not that you've turned state's witness against anyone else or anything.
You've just quit fighting them on the charges against you, basically, right?
On these particular charges, yes, and it's for carrying a rifle or shotgun outside the home and place of business, and unregistered firearm, unregistered ammunition, and possession of marijuana, and it was a really difficult decision.
It wasn't one I came to lightly, but I had consideration for other people that are involved in this, other people in my life, with consulting with my family, we decided that this was ultimately a good decision in the best interest of justice, as well as a good, positive, practical outcome, and as you know, I still have to face charges in Virginia, and I'm not looking forward to dealing with that either, but I'm really grateful for everybody who supported me so far in this endeavor, and it continues, of course, but everybody who wrote me letters when I was in jail, everybody who donated to the Legal Defense Fund, especially, everybody who wrote to the judge, and the prosecutors, and everybody else involved who felt out, who protested and was a part of this, it was really an amazing experience to feel how people came to my support during this time.
Yeah, that is cool.
Now, as far as the decision to go ahead and plead guilty, I don't think anybody would blame you for that when you're, you still could be facing prison time, or not?
Absolutely, and in this case, it's up to seven and a half years, minus the four-month time serve, and I'm still, I'd say, facing.
Yeah, so, you know, listen, this was your idea in the first place, it's not like you owe anyone any more time in jail at all, and hopefully they don't think you owe them any more time.
Well, like I said, ultimately, I think this is in the best interest of justice.
Alright, now, well, and do you feel like you made your point?
Oh, absolutely, and I've certainly stimulated a lot of thoughts, and a lot of people, and I definitely got a good sense of the appreciation for that.
And wow, so still up to seven years, now, well, jeez, I guess you can't really say, but...
Seven and a half.
Seven and a half.
So, your lawyers think that going ahead and pleading guilty is going to help you out very much, I hope?
Well, you know, I can't comment on any of those legal specifics until after the sentencing, but you know, we're looking forward to getting it passed this one way or another.
Yeah, well, you know, if I was Judge Harry, it'd just be $50 in time served, and go about your day, and thanks for the great YouTube video, but I guess we'll see.
Now, so, how long do you have until the sentencing?
Well, maybe you could be a judge, Scott.
I mean, I mean, I could see that happening pretty soon, yeah.
Wouldn't that be great?
Me and Dan Larroquette, and all of them, Bull Shannon, and, all right, the black lady, always liked her.
What was her name?
Marsha Wallace?
She's funny.
So, how long until you're sentenced?
January 17th.
Oh, okay, that's good, so we can expect some good episodes of Adam vs. the Man, at least in the meantime, right?
Well, I'll be...
I'm not sure exactly what I'm going to be capable of production-wise, I'm still, like I said, we weren't expecting this at all.
You know, I was fully prepared to stay in jail, and we were making plans to do more podcasts from jail, but it's been a lot of fun doing that, and, you know, my wonderful girlfriend, Carrie Webber, has been recording my podcasts over the jail phone, so people can go check those out, adamvstheman.com, slash podcast, or they can see them in segments on the YouTube channel, youtube.com, slash adamkokesh, and really appreciate everybody who's been listening to and sharing some of those videos, and there's some really good stuff lately.
We got an...
I did an interview, actually, with another inmate before I got out, his name's Q, he did it anonymously, that's going to be coming out this week.
There was a story I told with another inmate who, you know, has some very interesting legal challenges that he's faced, Mr. Glenn Smith, and really appreciate people checking those out and being able to help out some of the inmates that I met who are facing, you know, really much more difficult situations than I ever did.
Yeah, you know, I was just about to ask you what was the most important thing you learned in there, but I guess that's it, right?
The stories of these other people being held.
Yeah, and, well, that's a big part of it, you know, seeing what other people are going through, but also having a sense, just having lived through whatever little part of the experience that I did of the unique challenges that anyone going through the justice system faces, and, you know, one of the tough things, really, for me, was seeing when you're locked up pre-trial, that unless your legal strategy is, well, I'm going to have someone else pay a lawyer who's going to handle everything, you know, they make it very difficult for you to prepare a defense.
So that was, you know, that was a big part of it for me, but also, like, through hearing all these guys' stories and seeing what they were going through, you know, I really got a unique appreciation for, like I said, just all the different unique challenges that guys face.
Well, and overall, do you think most people or anything like most people in there actually did something wrong, like beat the hell out of their wife or something that they deserve to be in there for, or everybody's just accidentally committed some offense against some state regulation?
Well, I will say, there's a lot of deception among inmates, understandably, given the circumstances.
Sure, yeah.
There are a lot of people who...
We're all innocent, yeah.
Right, right.
Well, you know, that, of course, that's the myth, right, from Shawshank Redemption, you know, everybody in here is innocent, don't you know?
But that's actually, that's not true, and most people are very forthright about what they've been charged with, and generally, you know, people need to be careful about talking about their cases, but there aren't a lot of people going, oh, no, I'm innocent, I shouldn't be here, at least from my experience with the exposure that I had.
The vast majority of men, as inmates that I met, were pretty upfront about, you know, what they did and, you know, what it meant to be taking their punishment, whether they thought it was legitimate or not, and, you know, I mean, that's what I mean.
There's a difference between using a gun on someone and racking a shotgun on video to make a political point, or even just walking down the street with one in your pocket, and so I wonder, you know...
In that case, from that perspective, and I understand that's what you're getting at, I don't want to be trying to draw too many conclusions from my experience, because I think the statistics on those counts speak for themselves.
Yeah, that makes sense, I guess.
I don't know what they are, that's why I was curious.
I just imagine there are more people in there for gun charges for just simple possession rather than actually doing something wrong with one, but I don't know.
Well, there were definitely a lot of those, and, you know, again, I don't want to try to make a survey, because I wasn't keeping track of the numbers, and I wasn't looking at other guys' paperwork very often, but, you know, if you want to look at the numbers, there are a lot of people in for charges there, in essence, similar to what I face.
But, Scott, you know, I'm sorry I've got to go.
It's all the time I have right now, and, you know, like I said, I'm glad for the opportunity, but, you know, I'm going to be getting a book written in the next 10 weeks before I go to sentencing, and we have that to look forward to.
So I definitely appreciate the opportunity, and if anybody wants to help support me, adamversetheman.com.
You can go to SplashInvest if you want to donate.
Like I said, I'm going to have, well, as you probably know from while I was locked up, basically, and I don't mean just by government raiding my house, but from, you know, former staff member.
Basically, all of my money was stolen.
The original legal defense funds were stolen, and we've been trying to get some of that back, but we're going to, I've still got to go forward for this case in Virginia.
We really need all the help we can get with that, and then when all of this is behind me, getting back into regular production.
Right.
Right on.
Yeah, you know, I talked with your buddy, Drew, right?
Drew Phillips?
I interviewed him on the show, and I've been trying to remind people that whatever they heard about that, it's in the past, and that your good friend and your dad are handling the money for you now, and all that kind of thing.
I hope that the message has gotten out there that whatever problem is over, and that people can feel safe in donating again, and all that.
Absolutely.
And again, that's adamvstheman.com slash invest, and I'm sorry, go ahead, real quick.
Yeah, no, one of the things I really came to appreciate, too, about going to jail is the consequences of disruption to your life.
If it wasn't for the people that helped pick up the pieces in the last couple of months, and my dad, I want to shout out to him.
I love you so much, dad, and I'm really grateful for everybody, Nathan Cox, Kim Wood, Anthony Antonello, Michael Stalvey, my girlfriend, Carrie Wedler, in California, and Jeffrey Phillips in LA.
They've just been incredible when all this went down to help pick up the pieces.
But if it wasn't for them, my life, I'd be coming out of jail with a MetroCard and a Department of Corrections ID, and that would be it.
Hey, this bumper music is a coincidence, I swear.
Hey, we got to go.
That's it, adamvstheman.com.
Thanks, Adam.
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